Pure Land & Suicide

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Kaji
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Re: Pure Land & Suicide

Postby Kaji » Tue Sep 25, 2012 8:45 am

Namas triya-dhvikānāṃ sarva tathāgatānām!

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Nosta
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Re: Pure Land & Suicide

Postby Nosta » Tue Sep 25, 2012 7:13 pm

I dont see how can we come back as Boddhisatvas to this world.

If Pure Land is filled with people, why cant we see, today on Earth, monks "comming" from Pure Land? There should be at least a dozen of guys on Earth that are indeed Bodhisatvas from Pure Land.

wukong
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Re: Pure Land & Suicide

Postby wukong » Tue Sep 25, 2012 8:28 pm


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Nosta
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Re: Pure Land & Suicide

Postby Nosta » Tue Sep 25, 2012 10:13 pm

I dont know how to answer that neither other important question: how can Pure Land Teaching be a real teaching from Buddha if the scriptures (related to Pure Land) date 500 years after Shakyamuni life?

About the first question, regarding beings from Pure Land coming back to Earth, i found this on Infinite Life Sutra:
Ananda, the sentient beings born there all fully possess
the thirty-two physical characteristics of a Great Man as well as perfect wisdom, with which
they penetrate deeply into the nature of all dharmas and reach their subtle essence. Their
supernatural powers know no obstruction, and their physical senses are sharp and clear. The
bodhisattvas of lesser capacities attain two insights. [273c] Those with superior capacities attain
innumerable [merits by the] insights into the non-arising of all dharmas. Those bodhisattvas will
not be subject to rebirth in evil realms before they become Buddhas. Excepted are those who
seek birth in the worlds of other quarters during the turbulent period of the five defilements,
manifesting their forms in the likeness of the beings there, as in this world. They can freely
exercise supernatural powers and always remember their past lives.”
The Buddha said to Ananda, “By the Buddha’s power, bodhisattvas of that land go to innumerable
worlds of the ten quarters, in as short a time as it takes to eat a meal, in order to
pay homage and make offerings to the Buddhas, the World-Honored Ones.

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PadmaVonSamba
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Re: Pure Land & Suicide

Postby PadmaVonSamba » Tue Sep 25, 2012 10:27 pm

If you think "our world is over here" and "Pure land is over there" and somebody goes there and comes back here I think you are missing the whole point of transcending duality and of the one who recites Amitabha's name being inseparable from Amitabha.

Once the shore has been crossed, all such dualities are overcome.
From our perspective we might say "here and there" because our perspective is based on limits resulting from attachment.
Once true essence of awareness is realized in the Pure Land, the true nature of things is truly seen as they really are, as infinite, not finite.

If you think the Pure land is somewhere else, then it cannot be infinite. If it is not infinite, no Infinite Buddha can reside there. He would knock the walls down.
.
.
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Profile Picture: "The Foaming Monk"
The Chinese characters are Fo (buddha) and Ming (bright). The image is of a student of Buddhism, who, imagining himself to be a monk, and not understanding the true meaning of the words takes the sound of the words literally. Likewise, People on web forums sometime seem to be foaming at the mouth.
Original painting by P.Volker /used by permission.

infinitywaltz
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Re: Pure Land & Suicide

Postby infinitywaltz » Tue Sep 25, 2012 10:40 pm


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sinweiy
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Re: Pure Land & Suicide

Postby sinweiy » Wed Sep 26, 2012 2:25 am

_/\_
Amituofo!

"Enlightenment is to turn around and see MY own mistake, Other's mistake is also my mistake. Others are right even if they are wrong. i'm wrong even if i'm right. " - Master Chin Kung

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lobster
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Re: Pure Land & Suicide

Postby lobster » Wed Sep 26, 2012 3:18 am

a little death and rebirth . . . :jumping:

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Zenshin 善心
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Re: Pure Land & Suicide

Postby Zenshin 善心 » Wed Sep 26, 2012 4:01 am

see sig.

also, Shinran saw his wife Eshinni and Prince Shotoku as Kannon Bosatsu and his master Honen as Amida. When you receive a heart of gratitude, you realise Buddhas and Bodhisattvas are all around you, carrying you to the Pure Land.
All beings since their first aspiration till the attainment of Buddhahood are sheltered under the guardianship of Buddhas and Bodhisattvas who, responding to the requirements of the occasion, transform themselves and assume the actual forms of personality.

Thus for the sake of all beings Buddhas and Bodhisattvas become sometimes their parents, sometimes their wives and children, sometimes their kinsmen, sometimes their servants, sometimes their friends, sometimes their enemies, sometimes reveal themselves as devas or in some other forms.


- Ashvaghosa, The Awakening of Faith


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Kaji
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Re: Pure Land & Suicide

Postby Kaji » Wed Sep 26, 2012 4:34 am

Namas triya-dhvikānāṃ sarva tathāgatānām!

Rakz
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Re: Pure Land & Suicide

Postby Rakz » Wed Sep 26, 2012 8:41 am

I think you've asked this question before. Check out the Tibetan tradition, you'll find many many great teachers seen as incarnations of ancient Bodhisattvas. The most popular one being the Dalai Lama who is seen as the incarnation of Avalokiteśvara (one of the main attendants of Amitabha in the pure land)

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Re: Pure Land & Suicide

Postby plwk » Wed Sep 26, 2012 9:36 am

And the Karmapa and the one who pisses me the most and the ...

Rakz
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Re: Pure Land & Suicide

Postby Rakz » Wed Sep 26, 2012 9:46 am


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sinweiy
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Re: Pure Land & Suicide

Postby sinweiy » Wed Sep 26, 2012 11:41 am

_/\_
Amituofo!

"Enlightenment is to turn around and see MY own mistake, Other's mistake is also my mistake. Others are right even if they are wrong. i'm wrong even if i'm right. " - Master Chin Kung

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sinweiy
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Re: Pure Land & Suicide

Postby sinweiy » Wed Sep 26, 2012 11:56 am

_/\_
Amituofo!

"Enlightenment is to turn around and see MY own mistake, Other's mistake is also my mistake. Others are right even if they are wrong. i'm wrong even if i'm right. " - Master Chin Kung

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Kaji
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Re: Pure Land & Suicide

Postby Kaji » Wed Sep 26, 2012 1:01 pm

Namas triya-dhvikānāṃ sarva tathāgatānām!

wukong
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Re: Pure Land & Suicide

Postby wukong » Wed Sep 26, 2012 3:14 pm

Ok, So we seem to be reaching consensus that beings do indeed come back from the Pure Land to help other beings. But what about Shin Buddhism which teaches that the Pure Land is the final aim. A Shin buddhist, who believes in the literal metaphysical reality of Amida and the WPL, also believes that beings return to help other beings?

Wukong

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Zenshin 善心
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Re: Pure Land & Suicide

Postby Zenshin 善心 » Thu Sep 27, 2012 12:54 am

All beings since their first aspiration till the attainment of Buddhahood are sheltered under the guardianship of Buddhas and Bodhisattvas who, responding to the requirements of the occasion, transform themselves and assume the actual forms of personality.

Thus for the sake of all beings Buddhas and Bodhisattvas become sometimes their parents, sometimes their wives and children, sometimes their kinsmen, sometimes their servants, sometimes their friends, sometimes their enemies, sometimes reveal themselves as devas or in some other forms.


- Ashvaghosa, The Awakening of Faith


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sinweiy
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Re: Pure Land & Suicide

Postby sinweiy » Thu Sep 27, 2012 1:08 am

_/\_
Amituofo!

"Enlightenment is to turn around and see MY own mistake, Other's mistake is also my mistake. Others are right even if they are wrong. i'm wrong even if i'm right. " - Master Chin Kung

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Kaji
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Re: Pure Land & Suicide

Postby Kaji » Thu Sep 27, 2012 3:09 am

Namas triya-dhvikānāṃ sarva tathāgatānām!


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