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Concerning Kearney's "Development of Insight" - Page 4 - Dhamma Wheel

Concerning Kearney's "Development of Insight"

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths. What can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
Kenshou
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Re: Concerning Kearney's "Development of Insight"

Postby Kenshou » Fri Apr 22, 2011 4:20 am

Not that it is even necessary to go as far as the Dhammasangani here...

Sylvester
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Re: Concerning Kearney's "Development of Insight"

Postby Sylvester » Fri Apr 22, 2011 5:06 am

I don't think we are quite ready to tackle the Dhammasaṅgaṇī's "structure", until the advocate of the Dhammasaṅgaṇī as a laundry list of "dhammas" explains why the redactors of the Dhammasaṅgaṇī elected to use "tasmiṃ samaye", a locative absolute construction which does not necessarily connote contemporaneity. If the Dhammasaṅgaṇī's redactors intended to connote contemporaneity, and nothing but contemporaneity, they could have easily elected to use the genitive absolute "tassa samayassa" ...

Lest I be accused again of concocting bizaare interpretations, one can always refer to "Abhidharma Buddhism to 150 AD" (ed Karl H Potter), where these temporal dimensions of the Dhammasangani's presentation of dhammas are also noted.

What you have in the exclusively contemporaneous presentation of citta with dhammas is a purely Commentarial exegesis that is the outcome of the Commentarial idea of "a" citta as being of a "khana's" duration. The Dhammasaṅgaṇī's concept of the relationship between a "citta" and its dependantly-arisen dhammas is a great deal more subtle than the khanika citta and its cetasikas of the Commentaries.
Last edited by Sylvester on Fri Apr 22, 2011 5:20 am, edited 1 time in total.

rowyourboat
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Re: Concerning Kearney's "Development of Insight"

Postby rowyourboat » Fri Apr 22, 2011 5:09 am

With Metta

Karuna
Mudita
& Upekkha

Nyana
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Re: Concerning Kearney's "Development of Insight"

Postby Nyana » Fri Apr 22, 2011 6:45 am


Nyana
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Re: Concerning Kearney's "Development of Insight"

Postby Nyana » Fri Apr 22, 2011 6:51 am


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Dmytro
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Re: Concerning Kearney's "Development of Insight"

Postby Dmytro » Fri Apr 22, 2011 7:14 am



Sylvester
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Re: Concerning Kearney's "Development of Insight"

Postby Sylvester » Fri Apr 22, 2011 9:33 am


rowyourboat
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Re: Concerning Kearney's "Development of Insight"

Postby rowyourboat » Fri Apr 22, 2011 10:06 am

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Karuna
Mudita
& Upekkha

Nyana
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Re: Concerning Kearney's "Development of Insight"

Postby Nyana » Fri Apr 22, 2011 12:31 pm


Nyana
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Re: Concerning Kearney's "Development of Insight"

Postby Nyana » Fri Apr 22, 2011 1:17 pm


Sylvester
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Re: Concerning Kearney's "Development of Insight"

Postby Sylvester » Fri Apr 22, 2011 3:18 pm

Well, Geoff, if it's relevance to your charge of asaññasamāpatti that you want, let's take a look at the issue from this angle -

Does the Dhammasangani say anything at all about saññāvedayitanirodha - the attainment of cessation of perception and feelings? If it does not, what should be made of its silence on this state?

If you believe that Dhammasangani exhaustively addresses all possible types of cittas and dhammas that can be described, perhaps we need to ask the redactors why they left out a kusala citta that is domanassa sahagata that seems to be addressed by suttas that mention the "renunciation grief".

If time permits, perhaps we can extend the discussion of relevance of your concommitance theory to your "unestablished consciousness", which I prefer to follow BB in phrasing as "consciousness is unestablished".

Nyana
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Re: Concerning Kearney's "Development of Insight"

Postby Nyana » Fri Apr 22, 2011 3:55 pm


Theravadidiliana
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Re: Concerning Kearney's "Development of Insight"

Postby Theravadidiliana » Fri Apr 22, 2011 10:03 pm


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mikenz66
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Re: Concerning Kearney's "Development of Insight"

Postby mikenz66 » Sat Apr 23, 2011 12:02 am


Sylvester
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Re: Concerning Kearney's "Development of Insight"

Postby Sylvester » Sat Apr 23, 2011 2:11 am


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tiltbillings
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Re: Concerning Kearney's "Development of Insight"

Postby tiltbillings » Sat Apr 23, 2011 4:01 am

Interesting stuff, gentlemen, but do play nice. Those of us on the sidelines would like to see the various arguments put forth without it degenerating into a pissing match. The one thing of interest it what is meant by "cessation of the senses."

Nyana
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Re: Concerning Kearney's "Development of Insight"

Postby Nyana » Sat Apr 23, 2011 6:25 am

Last edited by Nyana on Sat Apr 23, 2011 6:58 am, edited 1 time in total.

Nyana
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Re: Concerning Kearney's "Development of Insight"

Postby Nyana » Sat Apr 23, 2011 6:42 am


rowyourboat
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Re: Concerning Kearney's "Development of Insight"

Postby rowyourboat » Sat Apr 23, 2011 9:21 am

With Metta

Karuna
Mudita
& Upekkha

Nyana
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Re: Concerning Kearney's "Development of Insight"

Postby Nyana » Sat Apr 23, 2011 12:44 pm



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