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Dhammapada Resources - Dhamma Wheel

Dhammapada Resources

A forum for members who wish to develop a deeper understanding of the Pali Canon and associated Commentaries, which for discussion purposes are both treated as authoritative.

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cooran
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Dhammapada Resources

Postby cooran » Thu Mar 26, 2009 4:06 am

Hello all,

Translations of the Dhammapada:

In keeping with Ajahn's comments elsewhere, I have left off the translations of:
Dhammapada translations to be avoided:

* Translations by North American poets who don't know a word of Pali. E.g., Thomas Byrom.
* Translations by western monks who do know Pali but erringly imagine themselves to be poets. E.g., Khantipālo, Thanissaro.
* Translations by Indians who have a Vedantist axe to grind. E.g., Radhakrishnan.
* Translations by men called Thomas. E.g., Thomas W. Rhys Davids, Thomas Cleary, Thomas Byrom


http://www.lioncity.net/buddhism/index. ... t&p=451082


The Dhammapada The Buddha's Path of Wisdom Translated from the Pali by Acharya Buddharakkhita
Introduction by Bhikkhu Bodhi
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .budd.html

Treasury of Truth - illustrated Dhammapada ~ Ven. W. Sarada Maha Thero
http://www.buddhanet.net/dhammapada/index.htm

1986 THE DHAMMAPADA VERSES & STORIES
Translated by Daw Mya Tin, M.A., 1986
THE DHAMMAPADA COMMENTARY
Translated by the Department of Pali University of Rangoon, Burma 1966

http://web.ukonline.co.uk/buddhism/dhmapada.htm

The Dhammapada - translator F. Max Muller
http://ebooks.ebookmall.com/title/dhamm ... ebooks.htm

metta
Chris
Last edited by cooran on Fri Mar 27, 2009 8:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
---The trouble is that you think you have time---
---Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe---
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mikenz66
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Re: Dhammapada Resources

Postby mikenz66 » Thu Mar 26, 2009 4:18 am

Hi Chris,

Thanks for the list.

I believe Ven Dhammanando also approved of:
THE DHAMMAPADA
PALI TEXT AND TRANSLATION WITH STORIES IN BRIEFAND NOTES
BY NARADA THERA
http://metta.lk/english/Narada/index.htm

Metta
Mike

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zavk
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Re: Dhammapada Resources

Postby zavk » Thu Mar 26, 2009 5:00 am

Hey thanks for this Chris.

I was contemplating getting Muller's translation for my iPhone. I will get it now.

Metta,
zavk
With metta,
zavk

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Cittasanto
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Re: Dhammapada Resources

Postby Cittasanto » Thu Mar 26, 2009 6:11 pm

hi Chris

* Translations by North American poets who don't know a word of Pali. E.g., Thomas Byrom.

how do you know they don't know a word of Pali, and not just using a method which they are use too?

* Translations by western monks who do know Pali but erringly imagine themselves to be poets. E.g., Khantipālo, Thanissaro.

how do you know they are imagining themselves to be poets? and not just put their knowledge and understanding of the phrases accross

* Translations by men called Thomas. E.g., Thomas W. Rhys Davids, Thomas Cleary, Thomas Byrom[/color][/b]

whats wrong with the name Thomas? what if a thomas translated it better than has been done before, should it be discarded?

I'll stick to reading what is available and only discard things which I find not to be useful, instead of reading what others think is useful.


He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.

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cooran
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Re: Dhammapada Resources

Postby cooran » Thu Mar 26, 2009 10:37 pm

Hello Manapa,

I totally trust Dhammanando Bhikkhu as a Pali and Buddhist Scriptural scholar. I included the link to the thread where he stated the following at E-S:

In keeping with Ajahn's comments elsewhere, I have left off the translations of:

Dhammanando Bhikkhu said:
Dhammapada translations to be avoided:

* Translations by North American poets who don't know a word of Pali. E.g., Thomas Byrom.
* Translations by western monks who do know Pali but erringly imagine themselves to be poets. E.g., Khantipālo, Thanissaro.
* Translations by Indians who have a Vedantist axe to grind. E.g., Radhakrishnan.
* Translations by men called Thomas. E.g., Thomas W. Rhys Davids, Thomas Cleary, Thomas Byrom


http://www.lioncity.net/buddhism/index. ... t&p=451082

If you don't agree, and can defend the translations and your pov, please state your case in detail. I would be interested to read it, and see what Ajahn Dhammanando has to say.

metta
Chris
Last edited by cooran on Fri Mar 27, 2009 8:01 pm, edited 2 times in total.
---The trouble is that you think you have time---
---Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe---
---It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---

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Re: Dhammapada Resources

Postby tiltbillings » Thu Mar 26, 2009 11:09 pm


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Khalil Bodhi
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Re: Dhammapada Resources

Postby Khalil Bodhi » Thu Mar 26, 2009 11:45 pm

Does anyone know where to get a hardcover copy of Narada Thera's Dhammapada?
To avoid all evil, to cultivate good, and to cleanse one's mind — this is the teaching of the Buddhas.
-Dhp. 183

Uposatha Observance Club:
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cooran
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Re: Dhammapada Resources

Postby cooran » Fri Mar 27, 2009 12:46 am

Hello Khalil Bodhi,

You can buy it online here:
Dhammapad by Narada Thera
The Dhammapada consists of four hundred and twenty three melodious Pali verses, uttered by the Buddha on about three hundred occasions, to suit the temperaments of the listeners in the course of his preaching tours during his ministry of forty five years. This book is the hand book of Buddhists. It should be re-read. Then it may serve as a constant companion for inspiration, solace and edification in times of need.
There are twenty six Vaggas in the Dhammapada and each Vagga has a specific topic. The verses of each Vagga have great meanings according to the topic and each verse has a story. This book presents the Pali verses, the meanings and the stories to an order.
The author has included the Pali Alphabet at the very start of the book.
$ 10 Online Item Code B818
http://buddhistcc.net/bookshop/book_info.asp?bid=279

metta
Chris
---The trouble is that you think you have time---
---Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe---
---It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---

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Khalil Bodhi
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Re: Dhammapada Resources

Postby Khalil Bodhi » Fri Mar 27, 2009 1:26 am

Thank you much Chris. Mettaya.
To avoid all evil, to cultivate good, and to cleanse one's mind — this is the teaching of the Buddhas.
-Dhp. 183

Uposatha Observance Club:
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Re: Dhammapada Resources

Postby sukhamanveti » Fri Mar 27, 2009 3:11 am

Hi Chris,

Thank you very much for the information. I am still collecting Dhammapada translations.

Two of the four Dhammapada translations that I own are by highly regarded translators. I think it is possible that Ven. Dhammanado might approve. One is the 1995 edition of the translation by Ven. Ananda Maitreya with language updated by semanticist Rose Kramer. (Ven. Ananda Maitreya Thera was "the Supreme Chief of the Amarapura sect" in Sri Lanka and one of the teachers of Bhikkhu Bodhi.) The other is the 2000 (corrected) edition of The Word of the Doctrine, translated by the Pali scholar K.R. Norman. It has a very informative introduction and copious notes in the back, addressing Norman's choices in translating the text.

EDIT: I corrected the title of Norman's translation with the insertion of "the."
Sīlaṃ balaṃ appaṭimaṃ.
Sīlaṃ āvudhamuttamaṃ.
Sīlamābharaṇaṃ seṭṭhaṃ.
Sīlaṃ kavacamabbhutaṃ.


Virtue is a matchless power.
Virtue is the greatest weapon.
Virtue is the best adornment.
Virtue is a wonderful armor.

Theragatha 614


Sabbapāpassa akaraṇaṃ,
kusalassa upasampadā,
Sacittapariyodapanaṃ,
etaṃ buddhāna sāsanaṃ.


Refraining from all wrong-doing,
Undertaking the good,
Purifying the mind,
This is the teaching of the buddhas.

Dhammapada v. 183/14.5

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Re: Dhammapada Resources

Postby Cittasanto » Fri Mar 27, 2009 11:52 am

hi Chris,
my sole POV is Ehipasiko. I have no interest in defending, people use the most familiar method to them or the best way they think to put their understanding across, they are more than capable of defending themselves if they want to.

I am not going to disregard one translation just because someone says they are to be avoided, or because the translator has a good or bad reputation, I will disregard a translation because I don't find it useful. your trust comment reminds me of a passage in the Kalama sutta BTW.

but the question everyone should ask themselves is, what is more important scriptural accuracy, or developing understanding.


He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.

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Re: Dhammapada Resources

Postby Cittasanto » Fri Mar 27, 2009 12:08 pm

Hi Tilt,

the proof is in the pudding. not the recommendation of the pudding.


He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.

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tiltbillings
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Re: Dhammapada Resources

Postby tiltbillings » Fri Mar 27, 2009 3:06 pm


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Re: Dhammapada Resources

Postby Cittasanto » Fri Mar 27, 2009 4:52 pm

Hi Tilt,
where have I said, not to accept recommendations? I have not said that, "instead of reading what others think is useful" is not saying not too heed recommendations. and whom do you recommend I listen to? those of reputation, those who disparage what they find useless, and praise what they find useful, or those who suggest what they find good without criticising what they don't?
knowledge does not equate understanding, or wisdom, and finding the truth for yourself does mean investigation!

I have actually most of the translations mentioned having ones from both lists on my book shelf, or on file on my computer.

the proof is in the pudding. not the recommendation of the pudding
this means that the effectiveness is not judged by what others say, or accuracy in translation of words, but by what the results of following the practice is.


He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.

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tiltbillings
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Re: Dhammapada Resources

Postby tiltbillings » Fri Mar 27, 2009 7:24 pm

Some translations are crappy and other are quite good. Not saying that the crappy translations are crappy does not make them less crappy. Until you learn Pali, you are stuck with reading other's translations, and following the Kalama Sutta, listening to the knowledgeable is not a bad thing.

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Re: Dhammapada Resources

Postby mikenz66 » Sat Mar 28, 2009 1:53 am


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sukhamanveti
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Re: Dhammapada Resources

Postby sukhamanveti » Sat Mar 28, 2009 11:30 pm

Sīlaṃ balaṃ appaṭimaṃ.
Sīlaṃ āvudhamuttamaṃ.
Sīlamābharaṇaṃ seṭṭhaṃ.
Sīlaṃ kavacamabbhutaṃ.


Virtue is a matchless power.
Virtue is the greatest weapon.
Virtue is the best adornment.
Virtue is a wonderful armor.

Theragatha 614


Sabbapāpassa akaraṇaṃ,
kusalassa upasampadā,
Sacittapariyodapanaṃ,
etaṃ buddhāna sāsanaṃ.


Refraining from all wrong-doing,
Undertaking the good,
Purifying the mind,
This is the teaching of the buddhas.

Dhammapada v. 183/14.5

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Cittasanto
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Re: Dhammapada Resources

Postby Cittasanto » Sun Mar 29, 2009 9:10 am



He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.

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bodom
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Re: Dhammapada Resources

Postby bodom » Thu Apr 16, 2009 4:26 pm

Its hard to believe that no one has mentioned John Ross Carter's translation of the Dhammapada and its commentary which could be argued as the most informative of all the many Dhammapada translations.

The Dhammapada (Paperback)
by John Ross Carter (Translator), Mahinda Palihawadana (Translator)

Review

"Far surpasses any previous translation of the Dhammapada in terms of its scope and contextual accuracy. Carter and Palihawadana have not only provided a fresh English translation of the Pali but a transliteration of the Dhammapada (which makes it eminently useful for students of Pali) and, most impressively, a translation of the exhaustive and extremely commentarial Pali Dhammapadatthakatha....This, then, is a work of wide scholarly magnitude and great philological erudition."--Religious Studies Review

Product Description

The Dhammapada, the Pali version of one of the most popular texts of the Buddhist canon, also ranks among the classics of the world's religious literature. This critical edition presents to the English reader for the first time the Dhammapada as it has been known throughout the centuries. With this volume, Carter and Palihawadana make a major contribution to the understanding of the Dhammapada, not only by presenting a new and accurate translation of the verses, but also by enabling readers to see the wake of this remarkable text through centuries of Buddhist tradition. In addition to the original Pali, the editors provide a translation of the commentary on the verses and the subsequent brief explanations of verse and commentarial passages provided by Sinhala sources.


http://books.google.com/books?id=pvOk7_ ... =1#PPP1,M1

http://www.amazon.com/Dhammapada-John-R ... 0195108604

I also enjoyed Gil Fronsdal's translation very much.

http://www.amazon.com/Dhammapada-Transl ... 0195108604

:namaste:
To study is to know the texts,
To practice is to know your defilements,
To attain the goal is to know and let go.

- Ajahn Lee Dhammadharo


With mindfulness immersed in the body
well established, restrained
with regard to the six media of contact,
always centered, the monk
can know Unbinding for himself.

- Ud 3.5


https://www.dhammatalks.org/index.html
http://www.ajahnchah.org/

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kc2dpt
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Re: Dhammapada Resources

Postby kc2dpt » Thu Jul 08, 2010 3:35 pm

If one wants recommendations, then give them.
If one does not want recommendations, then don't give them.
Some people want recommendation, some don't.
I do not see what is so difficult here.

If you value recommendations I do not see the point in criticizing others who don't value them.
Likewise, if you do not value recommendations I do not see the point in criticizing others who do value them.
Some value recommendation and some don't.

For my own part...

If I had a leaky roof and a person who makes his profession as a roofer and has a good reputation made a recommendation regarding fixing the roof I would pay him heed.

If I had a bodily pain and a doctor with a good reputation made a recommendation regarding medicine I would pay him heed.

If I wished to study Buddhadhamma and a monk with a good reputation for conduct and knowledge of Pali made a recommendation for reading material I would pay him heed.

Buddhism, after all, is a teaching transmitted by teachers. It started with the Buddha and continues with the Sangha. It is not the case that the Buddha said "There is Nibbana. Go and find it for yourself. I will not guide you." I am thankful for that.

Also, my time and energy is a limited resource; I cannot read every book. As such I am grateful for wise friends who can help me make the most out of my time and energy. However, I can easily see another person with more time and energy would perhaps care to read more book for themselves.
- Peter



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