Did you pay anything for your refuge precepts?

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Re: Did you pay anything for your refuge precepts?

Postby Indrajala » Sat Sep 22, 2012 1:31 pm

Metallica wrote:I am just wondering why isn't anyone on here saying anything to Huseng? There must be a single good Dharma Friend that he trust that can notify him of the dangerous state of mind he is in? It's not the first time someone who only focuses on knowledge and philsophy who has turned onto the path of slandering the Dharma.


Perhaps you might point out where I have been purportedly slandering the Dharma. If you do not, this constitutes baseless slander against me and will be understood as trolling.

If you have a problem with me, please feel free to issue criticism and attack my views or statements. This is perfectly acceptable and should be done if you disagree with me.

Also, you're misrepresenting me. I do not "only focus on knowledge and philosophy".

Huseng, have you been reading what you have written? It seems all your posts are focusing on slandering Monastics, precepts and Buddhist traditions in general. Isn't Buddhism about trying to turn our thinking positive, be tolerant and most importantly, understand yourself first?


Again I am perplexed as to where you are getting such ideas.

As a practitioner, I have gained immense benefit from traditional practices, and giving to Buddhist organisations in general have made me more generous toward other charity causes as well.


That's very good.

If you have taken refuge with the Triple Gem in your mind. Why are you so negative toward refuge taking ceremonies that are making so many people feel better? Surly to take refuge with your mind you have to do something physical first? Is the Dharma so cheap for you that you can't spare a few cents for the taking refuge?


When I made this post in 2010 I was simply asking if people ever paid for their refuge precepts. How is that negative?

AVICI HELL is ENDLESS! Of course it's a very wholesome Cause to want to learn the Dharma, but if you refuse to cultivate merit and only focus on knowledge alone, you WILL turn very arrogant, negative and self-centred. Then your wholesome cause will turned to retribution of immense suffering.



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Re: Did you pay anything for your refuge precepts?

Postby seeker242 » Sat Sep 22, 2012 2:06 pm

In the American Korean zen school (Kwan Um) there is a fee for a handmade robe and precepts kasa that you receive at the ceremony. $85 for the robe and $40 for the kasa. You are free to sew them yourself, or have someone else do it for you, if you chose though. Then, there is a traditional small money gift of whatever amount, for the teacher. :smile:
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Re: Did you pay anything for your refuge precepts?

Postby Stewart » Sat Sep 22, 2012 4:05 pm

Metallica wrote:I am just wondering why isn't anyone on here saying anything to Huseng? There must be a single good Dharma Friend that he trust that can notify him of the dangerous state of mind he is in? It's not the first time someone who only focuses on knowledge and philsophy who has turned onto the path of slandering the Dharma.

Huseng, have you been reading what you have written? It seems all your posts are focusing on slandering Monastics, precepts and Buddhist traditions in general. Isn't Buddhism about trying to turn our thinking positive, be tolerant and most importantly, understand yourself first?

As a practitioner, I have gained immense benefit from traditional practices, and giving to Buddhist organisations in general have made me more generous toward other charity causes as well.

If you have taken refuge with the Triple Gem in your mind. Why are you so negative toward refuge taking ceremonies that are making so many people feel better? Surly to take refuge with your mind you have to do something physical first? Is the Dharma so cheap for you that you can't spare a few cents for the taking refuge?

Sure the Dharma is the truth that should be free. But if someone is finacially able, should they make a contribution to make merit and also feel "value" to what they've done?

AVICI HELL is ENDLESS! Of course it's a very wholesome Cause to want to learn the Dharma, but if you refuse to cultivate merit and only focus on knowledge alone, you WILL turn very arrogant, negative and self-centred. Then your wholesome cause will turned to retribution of immense suffering.

By the way, my refuge and precept were free, not only did I get a certificate, I also got a free wrist mala, a free charm, and two books by our organisation's founding Master.

Would have gladly paid for them, as I have already donated over $2000 by this date. Sure beats giving that money to Bars and pubs under the pretense of "helping my friend having a few drinks."


What a completely ridiculous reply, calm down and try actually reading Husengs original post.
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Re: Did you pay anything for your refuge precepts?

Postby ReasonAndRhyme » Sat Sep 22, 2012 4:12 pm

Metallica wrote:I am just wondering why isn't anyone on here saying anything to Huseng?


Because there is no reason to. He has simply asked a question. Nothing wrong with that.
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Re: Did you pay anything for your refuge precepts?

Postby chokyi lodro » Sat Sep 22, 2012 5:48 pm

I do not find anything wrong in what Huseng says either. :offtopic:

Let us not derail topics at hand, and thank you everyone for your answers.
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Re: Did you pay anything for your refuge precepts?

Postby Blue Garuda » Sat Sep 22, 2012 6:32 pm

markadm wrote:Is it traditional to make a monetary offering also in the West, e.g. in the UK?

I will be taking refuge soon, and do not want to offend. (You know, some things in some culture are considered rude not to do, some things are considered rude to do...)


Some Gurus charge for attendance at a ceremony to cover the cost of the room etc. but will also probably state that anyone is welcome and finance will not be a barrier.

Dana is normal, and in the UK that's been my experience, sometimes separately done, sometimes held in an envelope in the folds of the khata(g) offering scarf.

Take along khatag and some cash in an envelope - sometimes the sangha will have khatags for sale at the ceremony ( usually less than £5) but it is always best to ask them for some simple guidance.

The main thing is to relax and enjoy it and 'give' your future practice as the best donation any Guru can receive. :)
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Re: Did you pay anything for your refuge precepts?

Postby oldbob » Sat Sep 29, 2012 5:21 am

muni wrote:We cannot come together this night in our dreams, in same way it is our conceptual mind which is creating its' world, is that not so?

:smile:

No, I got a name.

Also a warm meal and hot tea and great kindness. :bow:


Hi muni all and All,

Nice to be reminded of warm meals, hot tea and great kindness.


In dreams we can do many things. :smile:

-------------------------------------------------------------

Once Chuang Chou dreamt he was a butterfly, a butterfly flitting and fluttering around, happy with himself and doing as he pleased. He didn't know he was Chuang Chou.

Suddenly he woke up, and there he was, solid and unmistakable Chuang Chou.

But he didn't know if he was Chuang Chou who had dreamt he was a butterfly, or a butterfly dreaming he was Chuang Chou. Between Chuang Chou and a butterfly, there must be some distinction!

This is called the transformation of Things

-----------------------------------------------------------

http://www.amazon.com/Chuang-Tzu-Writin ... 0231105959

(P45) Special book, special wisdom, $5.20 used.

So there must be some distinction between those who charge for Dharma and those who give it away, freely!

Maybe it is all shoes on the alter, and depends on circumstances as to whether you earn merit as a poor person putting the only possession he had on the alter, or the rich person, earning merit, taking the shoes off.

My inclination is that it is not proper to turn anyone away, from Dharma events for not paying for Dharma, but I have my Bodhisattva vow from HHDL, under the Bodhi Tree (no charge) and so I take these dreams seriously. I also respect the good motivation of those who charge for Dharma, as that is their way with shoes on the alter. This is why Lord Buddha taught the 84,000 (means a lot of) different teachings so that there would be something for everyone.

:smile:

My two refuges were from extremely wealthy Lamas, HH Dudjom Rinpoche and HH Karmapa, and they did not charge anything.

I am in complete agreement with Huseng's position on not charging for refuge. My inclination is that it is much better not to charge for any Dharma and to have sponsors cover costs. In SE Asia, the Theravadins do not charge for Dharma talks, or events, and they sponsor free Dharma books that are made easily available to everyone. Maybe they are secret Mahayanists. :smile: Maybe Dzogchen Masters, or their followers, who turn people away, if the do not pay, are teaching Dzogchen in the style of the Pracheka Buddha. :smile:

I am in complete agreement with catmoon's gentle admonition of Metallica. Perhaps we could all, as good Dharma friends, PM Metallica about his post, if we think him off base. Short but sweet.

This is actually important.

Not saying anything could lead to Metallica's having to suffer the pride of his generosity, and for eons, he could be reborn as a DW mod, cursed to confront the ill will that shows up, sometimes, on DW. :smile:

I have not seen any slander of Dharma in this thread, and perhaps to claim such, IS slander.

I think that Huseng's excellent, and thought provoking question, came from the kind heart, of a sincere and well motivated, senior practitioner, and was a Turning of the Wheel. :bow:

This leads to a further thread:

:soapbox:

"Is Dharma pizza?", or conversly, "Dharma is not pizza!" :smile:

or both!, or neither! :smile:

ob
Last edited by oldbob on Sat Sep 29, 2012 6:18 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Did you pay anything for your refuge precepts?

Postby Namgyal » Sat Sep 29, 2012 5:49 am

Bodhisattvas are said to cry tears of blood when they even hear mention of the name of the lowest hell, yet this gentleman likes to shout it out aggressively on an internet forum. He also makes mention of the quantity of cash donations that he claims to have made in the past...neither of these strike me as particularly good forms of speech. In comparison Husengs query about refuge payments is completely innocuous (though I won't comment on it because 'Buddhism' in mainland China is a subject that always winds me up.)
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Re: Did you pay anything for your refuge precepts?

Postby deepbluehum » Sat Sep 29, 2012 3:58 pm

Huseng wrote:This might sound like an odd question, but I'd like to hear from everyone.

Did you pay anything for your refuge precepts?

My Chinese friend told me it costs 50 RMB (about the cost of a book) to get refuge precepts at the temple near her place in Guangzhou. They issue a certificate.

I never was asked for any money when I received my precepts and there was paperwork.

I personally think refuge precepts should not have any fee at all attached to them, but then the reality is I guess in some places there are fees for such ceremonies. I think most people will happily give a donation in any case.


Not for me. My teacher gave me some very expensive gifts though.
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Re: Did you pay anything for your refuge precepts?

Postby tomamundsen » Sat Sep 29, 2012 6:18 pm

Yes, there was a charge for my precept ceremony (Jukai in Soto Zen), because everyone received a wagesa and mala. I vaguely remember that the price was supposed to be somewhere around $100 for the whole thing, but I was a poor college student and only paid $50.
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Re: Did you pay anything for your refuge precepts?

Postby chokyi lodro » Sun Sep 30, 2012 9:57 am

Well, it was all useful to hear, but just to let you all know I took Refuge yesterday. :woohoo:

I made a modest offering, according to my means. More than I would pay for a book, though, but that was my choice because I suppose I wanted to underline (to myself) the significance. After all giving is not just about the receiver, it is about shaping the giver. I once had a hindu guru who said "you should give enough that it pinches", meaning largesse ought to have an impact on you, otherwise you're just giving away pocket money.
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Re: Did you pay anything for your refuge precepts?

Postby catmoon » Sun Sep 30, 2012 10:36 am

markadm wrote:Well, it was all useful to hear, but just to let you all know I took Refuge yesterday. :woohoo:



Ah! Well done! May the benefits of this action ease your path for many lifetimes.
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Re: Did you pay anything for your refuge precepts?

Postby pueraeternus » Sun Sep 30, 2012 11:30 pm

No payments, just some dana for my master. In Chinese Buddhism, it is customary to put some dana in a red packet (those used during Chinese New Year) and hand it to the preceptor respectfully.
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