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Yoga's Four Noble Truths - Dhamma Wheel

Yoga's Four Noble Truths

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths. What can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
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Will
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Yoga's Four Noble Truths

Postby Will » Tue Apr 19, 2011 3:35 pm

A bodhisattva does not become weary of evil beings nor does he commit the error of bringing forth thoughts inclined to reject them and cast them aside. Avatamsaka Sutra, ch. 25

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cooran
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Re: Yoga's Four Noble Truths

Postby cooran » Tue Apr 19, 2011 8:52 pm

Hello Will,

Interesting.

There was a discussion on Dhammastudygroup earlier this month on The Nature of Anatta, and there was a mention by Rob Eddison of the way the Buddha took familiar expressions and ideas of the day and imbued them with new meanings:

‘’Robert said: I've always had the feeling that Buddha was very good at taking common meanings
of the day and converting them into new understandings. For instance, his use
of the term Brahmin, as I recall, starts pointing towards those who are
following the Noble 8f path, rather than traditional Hinduism.

I've thought that the kind of analysis that those such as Patanjali did in the
yoga sutras, including the Ashtanga, or eight-fold path of yoga, was a template
for the Budda's Noble 8f Path, which he also expanded upon to create his 8 fold
path.
I think it's pretty smart to take a familiar template and expand upon it
to create a new level of meaning, and before you know it, some of the meanings
are completely different, while some of them, such as jhana/samadhi, are still
useful in a new context. ‘’
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dhammastu ... age/114150

with metta
Chris
---The trouble is that you think you have time---
---Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe---
---It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---

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Will
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Re: Yoga's Four Noble Truths

Postby Will » Tue Apr 19, 2011 9:38 pm

A bodhisattva does not become weary of evil beings nor does he commit the error of bringing forth thoughts inclined to reject them and cast them aside. Avatamsaka Sutra, ch. 25

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daverupa
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Re: Yoga's Four Noble Truths

Postby daverupa » Tue Apr 19, 2011 9:42 pm

" is an enumerationist philosophy that is strongly dualist. Samkhya denies the existence of Ishvara (God) or any other exterior influence. Samkhya philosophy regards the universe as consisting of two realities: Purusha (consciousness) and Prakriti (phenomenal realm of matter). They are the experiencer and the experienced, not unlike the res cogitans and res extensa of René Descartes. Prakriti further bifurcates into animate and inanimate realms. On the other hand, Purusha separates out into countless Jivas or individual units of consciousness as souls which fuse into the mind and body of the animate branch of Prakriti."

Arguing against such points of view seems to be a large part of the Commentarial exegesis. Abhidhamma + atta = jiva?

:

"Karel Werner writes that "Patanjali's system is unthinkable without Buddhism. As far as its terminology goes there is much in the Yoga Sutras that reminds us of Buddhist formulations from the Pāli Canon and even more so from the Sarvāstivāda Abhidharma and from Sautrāntika." Robert Thurman writes that Patanjali was influenced by the success of the Buddhist monastic system to formulate his own matrix for the version of thought he considered orthodox. The five yamas or the constraints of the Yoga Sutras of Patanjali bear an uncanny resemblance to the five major vows of Jainism, indicating influence of Jainism. This mutual influence between the Yoga philosophy and Jainism is admitted by the author Vivian Worthington who writes: "Yoga fully acknowledges its debt to Jainism, and Jainism reciprocates by making the practice of yoga part and parcel of life." Christopher Chappel also notes that three teachings closely associated with Jainism appear in Yoga: the doctrine of karma described as colourful in both traditions (see concept of lesya); the telos of isolation (kevala in Jainism and Kaivalyam in Yoga); and the practice of non-violence (ahimsa). He also notes that the entire list of five yamas (II:30) is identical with the ethical precepts (Mahavratas) taught by Mahavira who predated Patanjali by a few centuries.

"The commonality among the Samkhya/Yoga and the Jain and Buddhist philosophies is because of their common origin in the Sramana traditions."

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cooran
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Re: Yoga's Four Noble Truths

Postby cooran » Tue Apr 19, 2011 9:55 pm

Hello Will,

I’ve never thought about that or studied Patanjali - I wouldn't speculate on the time period, or who came first.

What I’m saying is something quite well-known in Buddhism – the Buddha used terms in everyday use and gave them new specific meanings. The Buddha rejected relying on Vedas for salvation, which included the earliest Upanishads. He redefined Indian cosmology, utilising the same language of the time in teaching people, but the meaning he gave to these same terms can be very different.

For example:
Thanissaro Bhikkhu says:
‘’The Buddha's Awakening gave him, among other things, a new perspective on the uses and limitations of words. He had discovered a reality — the Deathless — that no words could describe. At the same time, he discovered that the path to Awakening could be described, although it involved a new way of seeing and conceptualizing the problem of suffering and stress. Because ordinary concepts were often poor tools for teaching the path, he had to invent new concepts and to stretch pre-existing words to encompass those concepts so that others could taste Awakening themselves.
One of the new concepts most central to his teaching was that of the khandhas, which are most frequently translated into English as "aggregates." Prior to the Buddha, the Pali word khandha had very ordinary meanings: A khandha could be a pile, a bundle, a heap, a mass. It could also be the trunk of a tree. In his first sermon, though, the Buddha gave it a new, psychological meaning, introducing the term "clinging-khandhas" to summarize his analysis of the truth of stress and suffering. Throughout the remainder of his teaching career, he referred to these psychological khandhas time and again. Their importance in his teachings has thus been obvious to every generation of Buddhists ever since. ………’’
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/auth ... andha.html

Bhante Sujato says:
The word sati, which we translate ‘mindfulness’, means ‘memory’, and was originally used by Brahmans in the sense of memorized Vedic scriptures. To effectively recall large bodies of text, you get into a zone of clarity and presence, free of distractions. This was one of the influences in developing what we today call ‘meditation’.
The Buddha adopted this Brahmanical usage, and used sati to for both ‘memory’ (of texts) and ‘presence of mind’ in meditation.
http://sujato.wordpress.com/2011/01/18/ ... ndfulness/

Ven. K. Sri Dhammananda says:
He gave His own rational and scientific interpretation to all the philosophical terms before they were used in His teaching of the Dhamma. For instance, Kamma which only denoted action prior to the Buddha, was given a new meaning as volition behind the action.
http://www.purifymind.com/Introduction.htm

with metta
Chris
---The trouble is that you think you have time---
---Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe---
---It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---

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Kim OHara
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Re: Yoga's Four Noble Truths

Postby Kim OHara » Wed Apr 20, 2011 12:15 am


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cooran
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Re: Yoga's Four Noble Truths

Postby cooran » Wed Apr 20, 2011 3:18 am

---The trouble is that you think you have time---
---Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe---
---It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---

User avatar
Will
Posts: 709
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 11:26 pm

Re: Yoga's Four Noble Truths

Postby Will » Wed Apr 20, 2011 4:00 pm

A bodhisattva does not become weary of evil beings nor does he commit the error of bringing forth thoughts inclined to reject them and cast them aside. Avatamsaka Sutra, ch. 25


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