Does the soul exist in Mahayana thought?

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gad rgyangs
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Re: Does the soul exist in Mahayana thought?

Postby gad rgyangs » Sat Sep 15, 2012 3:00 pm

Malcolm wrote:
gad rgyangs wrote:
so what do you do instead of being born in the triple realm?



Presumably one dallies with celestial vigins, eating grapes and drinking wine.

M


virgins not for long! but seriously, I'd rather eat ice cream and smoke weed - is that an option there?
Thoroughly tame your own mind.
This is (possibly) the teaching of Buddha.

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Malcolm
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Re: Does the soul exist in Mahayana thought?

Postby Malcolm » Sat Sep 15, 2012 3:26 pm

gad rgyangs wrote:
Malcolm wrote:
gad rgyangs wrote:
so what do you do instead of being born in the triple realm?



Presumably one dallies with celestial vigins, eating grapes and drinking wine.

M


virgins not for long! but seriously, I'd rather eat ice cream and smoke weed - is that an option there?



grapes and wine can be viewed as placeholders for a variable.
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Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


So called “sentient beings” are merely delusions self-appearing from the dhātu of luminosity.

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tomamundsen
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Re: Does the soul exist in Mahayana thought?

Postby tomamundsen » Sat Sep 15, 2012 8:50 pm

Malcolm wrote:No rebirth in the triple realm. What else could possibly matter?

M

Being able to help sentient beings.

Rakz
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Re: Does the soul exist in Mahayana thought?

Postby Rakz » Sat Sep 15, 2012 8:57 pm

Malcolm wrote:
gad rgyangs wrote:
so what do you do instead of being born in the triple realm?



Presumably one dallies with celestial vigins, eating grapes and drinking wine.

M

:lol:

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Son of Buddha
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Re: Does the soul exist in Mahayana thought?

Postby Son of Buddha » Sun Sep 16, 2012 11:52 am

new2dharma wrote:Hello,
I was just reading a book review of TNH's "The heart of the buddha's teachings" on Amazon and a reviewer said that the idea of Annata or no self is false and that
TNH is incorrect by mentioning it in his book. So do buddhists believe in an individual's soul or self? If not what gets reincarnated? Thanks and Namaste, Dan :buddha1:


Hey Annata doesnt mean (no self or no soul) it means Not self,or Not the self, Not a self.
Commonly used to state the 5 aggregates are(Not the self)

As for a soul thats commonly refered to as a jiva
Also a funny note the Buddha NEVER said there was no soul,he stated in the Majjhima Nikaya the soul is neither in the body nor outside the body(for which he chose to not answer)
So not answering the question concering the jiva(soul) doesnt mean one doesnt exist.

as far as "self" is concerned
The false self is the 5 skandalas/aggregates
The eternal,bliss,pure,True Self is the Tathagatagarbha(Buddha Nature)
Check out the Mahaparanirvana sutra,queen srimala sutra,Tathagatagarbha sutra,Lankavatara sutra,Surangama sutra ect...

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Malcolm
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Re: Does the soul exist in Mahayana thought?

Postby Malcolm » Sun Sep 16, 2012 12:24 pm

tomamundsen wrote:
Malcolm wrote:No rebirth in the triple realm. What else could possibly matter?

M

Being able to help sentient beings.

That happens automatically.
http://www.atikosha.org
http://www.bhaisajya.net
http://www.bhaisajya.guru
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


So called “sentient beings” are merely delusions self-appearing from the dhātu of luminosity.

-- Ju Mipham

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DarwidHalim
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Re: Does the soul exist in Mahayana thought?

Postby DarwidHalim » Thu Sep 20, 2012 3:29 pm

If at this moment, while reading Dharmawheel, you can't see there is no soul, the question of what is reincarnating is foolish.
I am not here nor there.
I am not right nor wrong.
I do not exist neither non-exist.
I am not I nor non-I.
I am not in samsara nor nirvana.
To All Buddhas, I bow down for the teaching of emptiness. Thank You!

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Indrajala
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Re: Does the soul exist in Mahayana thought?

Postby Indrajala » Thu Sep 20, 2012 3:33 pm

DarwidHalim wrote:If at this moment, while reading Dharmawheel, you can't see there is no soul, the question of what is reincarnating is foolish.


Well clearly countless centuries of tradition have seen the question as important. Personally I take an interest in the topic because it addresses deep metaphysical questions and the subsequent implications.

Your ideas such as this don't really help anyone.
tad etat sarvajñānaṃ karuṇāmūlaṃ bodhicittahetukam upāyaparyavasānam iti |
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DarwidHalim
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Re: Does the soul exist in Mahayana thought?

Postby DarwidHalim » Thu Sep 20, 2012 3:55 pm

People like to find answer based on future event.

We will just end up with speculation.

The question about soul is answered from now's event.

If now, you don't see any soul, there is no point to entertain the rest.
I am not here nor there.
I am not right nor wrong.
I do not exist neither non-exist.
I am not I nor non-I.
I am not in samsara nor nirvana.
To All Buddhas, I bow down for the teaching of emptiness. Thank You!

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Son of Buddha
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Re: Does the soul exist in Mahayana thought?

Postby Son of Buddha » Thu Sep 20, 2012 8:24 pm

DarwidHalim wrote:People like to find answer based on future event.

We will just end up with speculation.

The question about soul is answered from now's event.

If now, you don't see any soul, there is no point to entertain the rest.


I dont see Enlightenment so is that also not real???
I also cant see atoms are they not real????
also the word soul is just a word,we make words to discribe a meaning.so what does soul mean to you???
Jivatman is the life principle,the continuation of life=so does rebirth not exist is their no continuation of life?
do you see these things?
again as said above Anatta does not mean no soul it means NOT Self,it has nothing to do with soul.

Majjhima Nikaya Culamalunkya Sutta 63

"The soul is the same as the body -I have left undeclared,The soul is one thing the and Body anouther -I have left undeclared."

Notice the Buddha doesnt say wether the soul exists or doesnt exist I leave undeclared
The Buddha implied that a soul exists,he just states where it IS is undeclared.

Peace and Love Brother

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gad rgyangs
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Re: Does the soul exist in Mahayana thought?

Postby gad rgyangs » Fri Sep 21, 2012 12:33 am

Son of Buddha wrote:I dont see Enlightenment so is that also not real???


exactly.

I also cant see atoms are they not real????


even if you could see them, I would hope you would at least provisionally bracket in what sense they, or anything else, is "real".

also the word soul is just a word,we make words to discribe a meaning.so what does soul mean to you???


Aretha Franklin
Thoroughly tame your own mind.
This is (possibly) the teaching of Buddha.

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Indrajala
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Re: Does the soul exist in Mahayana thought?

Postby Indrajala » Fri Sep 21, 2012 12:53 am

DarwidHalim wrote:People like to find answer based on future event.

We will just end up with speculation.

The question about soul is answered from now's event.

If now, you don't see any soul, there is no point to entertain the rest.


Do you know what inference means?
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DarwidHalim
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Re: Does the soul exist in Mahayana thought?

Postby DarwidHalim » Fri Sep 21, 2012 1:25 am

Inference based on which event? Present event or future event?

Something that has to be seen now, should be answered based on present event, not future event.

If someone has a soul, he will have a soul now and the future.

If we try to tackle the question based in future event, like rebirth or dying, you will get a fantasy answer.

You need to see present event. Where is this soul and so on?

If we want to infer, also infer based on present event.
I am not here nor there.
I am not right nor wrong.
I do not exist neither non-exist.
I am not I nor non-I.
I am not in samsara nor nirvana.
To All Buddhas, I bow down for the teaching of emptiness. Thank You!

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DarwidHalim
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Re: Does the soul exist in Mahayana thought?

Postby DarwidHalim » Fri Sep 21, 2012 1:32 am

Son of Buddha wrote:also the word soul is just a word,we make words to discribe a meaning.so what does soul mean to you???
Jivatman is the life principle,the continuation of life=so does rebirth not exist is their no continuation of life?
do you see these things?
again as said above Anatta does not mean no soul it means NOT Self,it has nothing to do with soul.

Majjhima Nikaya Culamalunkya Sutta 63

"The soul is the same as the body -I have left undeclared,The soul is one thing the and Body anouther -I have left undeclared."

Notice the Buddha doesnt say wether the soul exists or doesnt exist I leave undeclared
The Buddha implied that a soul exists,he just states where it IS is undeclared.

Peace and Love Brother


Soul and god as a creator are a fantasy.

It is better to talk about rock and car. You can see, you can touch. And car and rock can be established as intellectual object based on its appearances.

Now, you talk about soul. Even the appearance of soul cannot be established, how can you then even talk about it?

You are talking fantasy.

Can you talk about @2345783g?
I am not here nor there.
I am not right nor wrong.
I do not exist neither non-exist.
I am not I nor non-I.
I am not in samsara nor nirvana.
To All Buddhas, I bow down for the teaching of emptiness. Thank You!

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Indrajala
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Re: Does the soul exist in Mahayana thought?

Postby Indrajala » Fri Sep 21, 2012 5:51 am

DarwidHalim wrote:Inference based on which event? Present event or future event?

Something that has to be seen now, should be answered based on present event, not future event.

If someone has a soul, he will have a soul now and the future.

If we try to tackle the question based in future event, like rebirth or dying, you will get a fantasy answer.

You need to see present event. Where is this soul and so on?

If we want to infer, also infer based on present event.



Okay, incoherent and unrealistic as it might be, this might work for you, but most people have pressing questions about their post-mortem fate and whether or not such a thing as soul or something akin to it might exist.

There is nothing wrong with thinking about things and asking questions. Moreover, contemplating the past and its relationship to the future is quite probably one of the most important things a Buddhist can do as they can see the ripening from causes and conditions over time along with their own future prospects.

Your idea of ignoring and/or discrediting inference and critical thinking is simply dangerous.
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DarwidHalim
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Re: Does the soul exist in Mahayana thought?

Postby DarwidHalim » Fri Sep 21, 2012 6:23 am

If we want the satisfying answer for soul, we must search it now, not the future.

If now, you see no soul, it is automatic in the future there is no soul.

Buy if in the future you can conclude there is no soul, it doesn't mean you can conclude there is no soul right now when you are reading dharmawheel.

This is a main issue for 5 aggregates for example.

Some practitioners say there are aggregates now, but in the future after you die, there are no aggregates.

That is foolish. This is because they see based on future event.

It is right now, there are no 5 aggregates. No need to wait until future.

If we want to infer, infer based in right now.

Future is mind game. The answer is also mind game. It will not give a kick in our life.

This is mentioned well by Shakbar, in the flight of Garuda, we should really search within right now.
I am not here nor there.
I am not right nor wrong.
I do not exist neither non-exist.
I am not I nor non-I.
I am not in samsara nor nirvana.
To All Buddhas, I bow down for the teaching of emptiness. Thank You!

Karma Dondrup Tashi
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Re: Does the soul exist in Mahayana thought?

Postby Karma Dondrup Tashi » Fri Sep 21, 2012 2:25 pm

gad rgyangs wrote:Aretha Franklin


Meh Buddhists. They ain't got no soul.

:tongue:


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