Skywalker wrote: mutsuk wrote:
Sönam wrote:Bhumis in Dzogchen? ... does he "really" talks about Dzogchen?
Of course he talks about Dzogchen. There are 16 bhumis in Dzogchen, defined in the Rig-pa rang-shar and elsewhere (Longchenpa, etc.).
Sorry, I am just a humble fool regarding philosophy, but I heard otherwise from a student of Mr. Norbu. I was told that in Dzogchen there is only one Bhumi. Either you recognize the mind of clear light and are in Rigpa or you don't. I am not trying to disagree with you here, I am just pointing out a contradiction which comes to me. Being quite ignorant of the intricacies of Buddhist and Dzogchen philosophy, I am eager to learn.
Sixteen bhumis (Wyl. sa bcu drug) —
Perfect Joy (Skt. pramuditābhūmi; Tib. rabtu gawa; Wyl. rab tu dga’ ba)
Immaculate / Stainless (Skt. vimalābhūmi; Tib. drima mepa; Wyl. dri ma med pa)
Luminous / Illuminating (Skt. prabhākarībhūmi; Tib. ö jepa; Wyl. ‘od byed pa)
Radiant (Skt. arciṣmatībhūmi; Tib. ö tro chen; Wyl. ‘od ‘phro can)
Hard to Keep / Hard to Conquer (Skt. sudurjayābhūmi; Tib. shintu jankawa; Wyl. shin tu sbyang dka’ ba)
Clearly Manifest (Skt. abhimukhībhūmi; Tib. ngöntu gyurpa; Wyl. mngon du gyur ba)
Far Progressed (Skt. duraṅgamabhūmi; Tib. ringtu songwa; Wyl. ring du song ba)
Immovable (Skt. acālabhūmi; Tib. miyowa; Wyl. mi g.yo ba)
Perfect Intellect (Skt. sādhuṃatībhūmi; Tib. lekpé lodrö; Wyl. legs pa’i blo gros)
Cloud of Dharma (Skt. dharmameghaābhūmi; Tib. chökyi trin; Wyl. chos kyi sprin)
Universal Radiance (Tib. kuntu ö; Wyl. kun tu 'od)
Lotus of Non-Attachment (Tib. machak pema chen; Wyl. ma chags padma can)
Gatherings of Rotating Syllables (Tib. yige khorlo tsokchen; Wyl. yi ge 'khor lo tshogs chen)
Great Samadhi (Tib. tingdzin chenpo; Wyl. ting nge 'dzin chen po)
Vajra Holder (Tib. dorje dzin; Wyl. rdo rje 'dzin)
Unexcelled Wisdom (Tib. yeshe lama; Wyl. ye shes bla ma)
Please to remember that Dzogchen is totally beyond any concept or characteristics whatsoever, yet everything manifests exactly as it should (as it is).
So if the formulation that expresses as one Bhumi arises, this is contained within Dzogchen.
If the formulation that expresses as 16 Bhumis arises, ( or any number) then that, is equally contained within Dzogchen.
If no formulation arises, this is also contained within Dzogchen.
Please to remember that Dzogchen does not make any of these claims. viewtopic.php?f=40&t=8243#p98902
These are imputations, in words, of the characteristics of Dzogchen, and by definition are limited to the realm of words.
The 17 +2 Dzogchen Tantras are not Dzogchen. They are words about Dzogchen.
Please to remember that Dzogchen cannot even name itself and any attempt is like trying to write on air or water: there is nothing to adher to.
It is a different dimension - a different frame of reference.
Hence the key point about the necessity of taking the pointing out instruction from a Dzogchen Master. This is the single point that contains all.
Homage to the Dzogchen Masters, may they live long, in good health, and with success in all things.