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Can't make sense of rebirth AND no self. - Dhamma Wheel

Can't make sense of rebirth AND no self.

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths. What can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
Adamjackson
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Can't make sense of rebirth AND no self.

Postby Adamjackson » Wed Apr 13, 2011 1:06 pm

I just can't logically come up with a satisfactory explanation to reconcile the Buddhist doctrine of rebirth and reincarnation, AND anatman or 'no self'. If we do not have a soul or spirit (which I absolutely agree we don't). then what on earth is reborn? How can we be reborn if there is no self? To me, this does not make logical sense. Does anyone have any sound, rational explanations?

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Fede
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Re: Can't make sense of rebirth AND no self.

Postby Fede » Wed Apr 13, 2011 2:07 pm

Reincarnation is a Tibetan/Mahayanan Buddhist concept.

Re-birth is not associated with anything of you that is immediately recognisable as definitively 'You'.

Self/Not-Self is the concept of a dual existence:
Physically, as a human being, made up of skandas, you exist, as much as a table or chair, do.

But if you observe the reflection in the mirror, you will see that you only resemble the "you" at 5 years, slightly.
So your self is a constantly changing, re-born existence....
You are not what/who you were at 5 years of age, and are constantly being re-born to new and stimulating experience, which changes you both internally and externally.
That's another way of considering re-birth, BtW....

This might help....

http://www.facetofaceintercultural.com. ... reborn.pdf
"Samsara: The human condition's heartbreaking inability to sustain contentment." Elizabeth Gilbert, 'Eat, Pray, Love'.

Simplify: 17 into 1 WILL go: Mindfulness!

Quieta movere magna merces videbatur. (Sallust, c.86-c.35 BC)
Translation: Just to stir things up seemed a good reward in itself. ;)

I am sooooo happy - How on earth could I be otherwise?! :D


http://www.armchairadvice.co.uk/relationships/forum/

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bodom
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Re: Can't make sense of rebirth AND no self.

Postby bodom » Wed Apr 13, 2011 2:19 pm

To study is to know the texts,
To practice is to know your defilements,
To attain the goal is to know and let go.

- Ajahn Lee Dhammadharo


With mindfulness immersed in the body
well established, restrained
with regard to the six media of contact,
always centered, the monk
can know Unbinding for himself.

- Ud 3.5


https://www.dhammatalks.org/index.html
http://www.ajahnchah.org/

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cooran
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Re: Can't make sense of rebirth AND no self.

Postby cooran » Wed Apr 13, 2011 2:22 pm

This might be of assistance:
Rebirth by Bhikkhu Bodhi
http://www.beyondthenet.net/dhamma/rebirth.htm

with metta
Chris
---The trouble is that you think you have time---
---Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe---
---It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---

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Jason
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Re: Can't make sense of rebirth AND no self.

Postby Jason » Wed Apr 13, 2011 5:50 pm

"Sabbe dhamma nalam abhinivesaya" ().

(Buddhist-related blog)
(non-Buddhist related blog)

Parth
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Re: Can't make sense of rebirth AND no self.

Postby Parth » Wed Apr 13, 2011 6:46 pm


yiming
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Re: Can't make sense of rebirth AND no self.

Postby yiming » Wed Apr 13, 2011 6:58 pm


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Bhikkhu Pesala
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Re: Can't make sense of rebirth AND no self.

Postby Bhikkhu Pesala » Wed Apr 13, 2011 7:59 pm

• • • • (Upasampadā: 24th June, 1979)

notgnimer
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Re: Can't make sense of rebirth AND no self.

Postby notgnimer » Wed Apr 13, 2011 8:03 pm

Yes, I have to agree with what the other fellow here wrote. Sorry, I didn't write the name down before posting. But the gist of my answer is this:
Don't worry about this concept right now. I understand, I feel the same way. I was just this morning thinking about it. So, if the goal is the realization of the buddha nature in us, i.e. nirvana----Who is it that reaches enlightenment? Who WANTS to reach enlightenment? I finally came to the conclustion, I don't know this answer---yet. Through practice, mediatation, and study, I firmly trust the answer will reveal itself to me when the time is right. I would say the same thing to you. Just practice your meditation, practice the 8 fold path, contemplate the impermanence, and inter-connectedness of all things. Stop there. Just focus on these things (that's a tough bill to fill!) The concept of anatman will come... :sage:

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acinteyyo
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Re: Can't make sense of rebirth AND no self.

Postby acinteyyo » Wed Apr 13, 2011 8:15 pm

Thag 1.20. Ajita - I do not fear death; nor do I long for life. I’ll lay down this body, aware and mindful.

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daverupa
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Re: Can't make sense of rebirth AND no self.

Postby daverupa » Wed Apr 13, 2011 11:14 pm


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retrofuturist
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Re: Can't make sense of rebirth AND no self.

Postby retrofuturist » Wed Apr 13, 2011 11:18 pm

:goodpost:

(so I shall repeat it once more :D )

I also agree with what acinteyyo has said.

Metta,
Retro. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

yiming
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Re: Can't make sense of rebirth AND no self.

Postby yiming » Thu Apr 14, 2011 2:22 pm


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octobersun79
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Re: Can't make sense of rebirth AND no self.

Postby octobersun79 » Thu Apr 14, 2011 2:41 pm

Mmm I've always thought ' there can't be a self when we are all made up of trillions of atoms' each atom is part of the universe, so we are not a 'self' we are just part of a huge thing.

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acinteyyo
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Re: Can't make sense of rebirth AND no self.

Postby acinteyyo » Thu Apr 14, 2011 3:40 pm

Last edited by acinteyyo on Thu Apr 14, 2011 8:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Thag 1.20. Ajita - I do not fear death; nor do I long for life. I’ll lay down this body, aware and mindful.

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Fede
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Re: Can't make sense of rebirth AND no self.

Postby Fede » Thu Apr 14, 2011 5:54 pm

"Samsara: The human condition's heartbreaking inability to sustain contentment." Elizabeth Gilbert, 'Eat, Pray, Love'.

Simplify: 17 into 1 WILL go: Mindfulness!

Quieta movere magna merces videbatur. (Sallust, c.86-c.35 BC)
Translation: Just to stir things up seemed a good reward in itself. ;)

I am sooooo happy - How on earth could I be otherwise?! :D


http://www.armchairadvice.co.uk/relationships/forum/

yiming
Posts: 34
Joined: Sat Mar 26, 2011 5:09 pm

Re: Can't make sense of rebirth AND no self.

Postby yiming » Fri Apr 15, 2011 6:30 pm


easylite
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Joined: Sat Apr 16, 2011 12:16 pm

Re: Can't make sense of rebirth AND no self.

Postby easylite » Sat Apr 16, 2011 12:34 pm


chownah
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Re: Can't make sense of rebirth AND no self.

Postby chownah » Sat Apr 16, 2011 1:02 pm

Can't make sense of rebirth and no self.

My understanding of the Buddha's teachings where he talks about "no self" is that he taught that we can not conceive of anything which is a "self"....anything we construct or compound to define a "self" will fail......so.....perhaps our inability to make sense of rebirth and no self is simply a demonstration of how our conceived ideas about self are once again a failure...
chownah

easylite
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Re: Can't make sense of rebirth AND no self.

Postby easylite » Sat Apr 16, 2011 1:59 pm



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