Yogacara and dzogchen

Andrew108
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Re: Yogacara and dzogchen

Postby Andrew108 » Sat Sep 15, 2012 8:27 pm

The Blessed One said:

"What is the All? Simply the eye & forms, ear & sounds, nose & aromas, tongue & flavors, body & tactile sensations, intellect & ideas. This, monks, is called the All. Anyone who would say, 'Repudiating this All, I will describe another,' if questioned on what exactly might be the grounds for his statement, would be unable to explain, and furthermore, would be put to grief. Why? Because it lies beyond range." Sabba Sutta.

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kalden yungdrung
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Re: Yogacara and dzogchen

Postby kalden yungdrung » Sat Sep 15, 2012 9:03 pm

The best meditation is no meditation

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futerko
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Re: Yogacara and dzogchen

Postby futerko » Sun Sep 16, 2012 7:24 am

Jyoti,

I found this essay which I think explains the two perspectives that Mipham is talking about. http://ftp.buddhism.org/Publications/IA ... 20Park.pdf

He explains,

"While enlightened beings see everything from a t'i(體) perspective,
unenlightened beings see everything from a yung(用) perspective...

If we detach yung from t'i, our picture will become a small one,
but if we merge yung into t'i', we will have a big picture which
comprises all small pictures. Since small picture embraces a yung
perspective, they are liable to be wrong."

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heart
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Re: Yogacara and dzogchen

Postby heart » Sun Sep 16, 2012 8:40 am

"We are all here to help each other go through this thing, whatever it is."
~Kurt Vonnegut

"The principal practice is Guruyoga. But we need to understand that any secondary practice combined with Guruyoga becomes a principal practice." ChNNR (Teachings on Thun and Ganapuja)

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Jyoti
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Re: Yogacara and dzogchen

Postby Jyoti » Sun Sep 16, 2012 12:22 pm


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Malcolm
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Re: Yogacara and dzogchen

Postby Malcolm » Sun Sep 16, 2012 12:27 pm





འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


Free of hope and fear, relax.
Human life spent in
a state of great spaciousness is enjoyable.


— Kunzang Dechen Lingpa

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Jyoti
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Re: Yogacara and dzogchen

Postby Jyoti » Sun Sep 16, 2012 1:46 pm


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Malcolm
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Re: Yogacara and dzogchen

Postby Malcolm » Sun Sep 16, 2012 2:24 pm





འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


Free of hope and fear, relax.
Human life spent in
a state of great spaciousness is enjoyable.


— Kunzang Dechen Lingpa

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heart
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Re: Yogacara and dzogchen

Postby heart » Sun Sep 16, 2012 6:13 pm

"We are all here to help each other go through this thing, whatever it is."
~Kurt Vonnegut

"The principal practice is Guruyoga. But we need to understand that any secondary practice combined with Guruyoga becomes a principal practice." ChNNR (Teachings on Thun and Ganapuja)

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Malcolm
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Re: Yogacara and dzogchen

Postby Malcolm » Sun Sep 16, 2012 6:16 pm





འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


Free of hope and fear, relax.
Human life spent in
a state of great spaciousness is enjoyable.


— Kunzang Dechen Lingpa

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futerko
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Re: Yogacara and dzogchen

Postby futerko » Sun Sep 16, 2012 9:31 pm


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anjali
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Re: Yogacara and dzogchen

Postby anjali » Sun Sep 16, 2012 11:15 pm

All things are unworthy of clinging to (sabbe dhammā nâla abhinivesāyā). --Shakyamuni Buddha
Wanting to grasp the ungraspable, you exhaust yourself in vain. --Gendun Rinpoche

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Jyoti
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Re: Yogacara and dzogchen

Postby Jyoti » Mon Sep 17, 2012 12:45 am

Last edited by Indrajala on Tue Sep 18, 2012 12:24 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Lengthy Chinese quotes removed.

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Jyoti
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Re: Yogacara and dzogchen

Postby Jyoti » Mon Sep 17, 2012 1:19 am


username
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Re: Yogacara and dzogchen

Postby username » Mon Sep 17, 2012 1:39 am

These are just concepts, philosophies, words & Sutras. No Chinese or Japanese sutrayana practice got rainbow bodies AFAIK, never mind in our large numbers, with mere words & semantic claims. Dzogchen has a path of practice whose actual fruits can be verified in stages, unmatched by any sutra conceptual vehicle, not even close by miles. It is good the Chinese are increasingly interested in the philosophies & sutras of mahayana & other luckier Chinese with higher capacity in Vajrayana/Mahamudra/Dzogchen proper & that some westerners find the Japanese Zen trendier than Chinese vehicles as palatable concepts to enter the path with. All good in the end, but nowhere near Dzogchen as they wish or claim or tell themselves often.
Dzogchen masters I know say: 1)Buddhist religion essence is Dzogchen 2)Religions are positive by intent/fruit 3)Any method's OK unless: breaking Dzogchen vows, mixed as syncretic (Milanese Soup) 4)Don't join mandalas of opponents of Dalai Lama/Padmasambhava: False Deity inventors by encouraging victims 5)Don't debate Ati with others 6)Don't discuss Ati practices online 7) A master told his old disciple: no one's to discuss his teaching with some others on a former forum nor mention him. Publicity's OK, questions are asked from masters/set teachers in person/email/non-public forums~Best wishes

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futerko
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Re: Yogacara and dzogchen

Postby futerko » Mon Sep 17, 2012 1:49 am


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Malcolm
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Re: Yogacara and dzogchen

Postby Malcolm » Mon Sep 17, 2012 3:30 am





འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


Free of hope and fear, relax.
Human life spent in
a state of great spaciousness is enjoyable.


— Kunzang Dechen Lingpa

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Jyoti
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Re: Yogacara and dzogchen

Postby Jyoti » Mon Sep 17, 2012 3:42 am


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Malcolm
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Re: Yogacara and dzogchen

Postby Malcolm » Mon Sep 17, 2012 3:55 am





འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


Free of hope and fear, relax.
Human life spent in
a state of great spaciousness is enjoyable.


— Kunzang Dechen Lingpa

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futerko
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Re: Yogacara and dzogchen

Postby futerko » Mon Sep 17, 2012 4:03 am



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