virgins not for long! but seriously, I'd rather eat ice cream and smoke weed - is that an option there?Malcolm wrote:gad rgyangs wrote:
so what do you do instead of being born in the triple realm?
Presumably one dallies with celestial vigins, eating grapes and drinking wine.
M
Does the soul exist in Mahayana thought?
- gad rgyangs
- Posts: 1142
- Joined: Sat Nov 05, 2011 4:53 pm
Re: Does the soul exist in Mahayana thought?
Thoroughly tame your own mind.
This is (possibly) the teaching of Buddha.
"I must finally conclude that this proposition, I am, I exist, is necessarily true whenever it is put forward by me or conceived in my mind."
- Descartes, 2nd Meditation 25
This is (possibly) the teaching of Buddha.
"I must finally conclude that this proposition, I am, I exist, is necessarily true whenever it is put forward by me or conceived in my mind."
- Descartes, 2nd Meditation 25
Re: Does the soul exist in Mahayana thought?
gad rgyangs wrote:virgins not for long! but seriously, I'd rather eat ice cream and smoke weed - is that an option there?Malcolm wrote:gad rgyangs wrote:
so what do you do instead of being born in the triple realm?
Presumably one dallies with celestial vigins, eating grapes and drinking wine.
M
grapes and wine can be viewed as placeholders for a variable.
- Thomas Amundsen
- Posts: 2034
- Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2011 2:50 am
- Location: Helena, MT
- Contact:
Re: Does the soul exist in Mahayana thought?
Being able to help sentient beings.Malcolm wrote:No rebirth in the triple realm. What else could possibly matter?
M
Re: Does the soul exist in Mahayana thought?
Malcolm wrote:gad rgyangs wrote:
so what do you do instead of being born in the triple realm?
Presumably one dallies with celestial vigins, eating grapes and drinking wine.
M
-
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- Joined: Wed Dec 21, 2011 6:48 pm
Re: Does the soul exist in Mahayana thought?
Hey Annata doesnt mean (no self or no soul) it means Not self,or Not the self, Not a self.new2dharma wrote:Hello,
I was just reading a book review of TNH's "The heart of the buddha's teachings" on Amazon and a reviewer said that the idea of Annata or no self is false and that
TNH is incorrect by mentioning it in his book. So do buddhists believe in an individual's soul or self? If not what gets reincarnated? Thanks and Namaste, Dan
Commonly used to state the 5 aggregates are(Not the self)
As for a soul thats commonly refered to as a jiva
Also a funny note the Buddha NEVER said there was no soul,he stated in the Majjhima Nikaya the soul is neither in the body nor outside the body(for which he chose to not answer)
So not answering the question concering the jiva(soul) doesnt mean one doesnt exist.
as far as "self" is concerned
The false self is the 5 skandalas/aggregates
The eternal,bliss,pure,True Self is the Tathagatagarbha(Buddha Nature)
Check out the Mahaparanirvana sutra,queen srimala sutra,Tathagatagarbha sutra,Lankavatara sutra,Surangama sutra ect...
Re: Does the soul exist in Mahayana thought?
That happens automatically.tomamundsen wrote:Being able to help sentient beings.Malcolm wrote:No rebirth in the triple realm. What else could possibly matter?
M
- DarwidHalim
- Posts: 418
- Joined: Thu Sep 22, 2011 6:04 pm
Re: Does the soul exist in Mahayana thought?
If at this moment, while reading Dharmawheel, you can't see there is no soul, the question of what is reincarnating is foolish.
I am not here nor there.
I am not right nor wrong.
I do not exist neither non-exist.
I am not I nor non-I.
I am not in samsara nor nirvana.
To All Buddhas, I bow down for the teaching of emptiness. Thank You!
I am not right nor wrong.
I do not exist neither non-exist.
I am not I nor non-I.
I am not in samsara nor nirvana.
To All Buddhas, I bow down for the teaching of emptiness. Thank You!
Re: Does the soul exist in Mahayana thought?
Well clearly countless centuries of tradition have seen the question as important. Personally I take an interest in the topic because it addresses deep metaphysical questions and the subsequent implications.DarwidHalim wrote:If at this moment, while reading Dharmawheel, you can't see there is no soul, the question of what is reincarnating is foolish.
Your ideas such as this don't really help anyone.
- DarwidHalim
- Posts: 418
- Joined: Thu Sep 22, 2011 6:04 pm
Re: Does the soul exist in Mahayana thought?
People like to find answer based on future event.
We will just end up with speculation.
The question about soul is answered from now's event.
If now, you don't see any soul, there is no point to entertain the rest.
We will just end up with speculation.
The question about soul is answered from now's event.
If now, you don't see any soul, there is no point to entertain the rest.
I am not here nor there.
I am not right nor wrong.
I do not exist neither non-exist.
I am not I nor non-I.
I am not in samsara nor nirvana.
To All Buddhas, I bow down for the teaching of emptiness. Thank You!
I am not right nor wrong.
I do not exist neither non-exist.
I am not I nor non-I.
I am not in samsara nor nirvana.
To All Buddhas, I bow down for the teaching of emptiness. Thank You!
-
- Posts: 1123
- Joined: Wed Dec 21, 2011 6:48 pm
Re: Does the soul exist in Mahayana thought?
I dont see Enlightenment so is that also not real???DarwidHalim wrote:People like to find answer based on future event.
We will just end up with speculation.
The question about soul is answered from now's event.
If now, you don't see any soul, there is no point to entertain the rest.
I also cant see atoms are they not real????
also the word soul is just a word,we make words to discribe a meaning.so what does soul mean to you???
Jivatman is the life principle,the continuation of life=so does rebirth not exist is their no continuation of life?
do you see these things?
again as said above Anatta does not mean no soul it means NOT Self,it has nothing to do with soul.
Majjhima Nikaya Culamalunkya Sutta 63
"The soul is the same as the body -I have left undeclared,The soul is one thing the and Body anouther -I have left undeclared."
Notice the Buddha doesnt say wether the soul exists or doesnt exist I leave undeclared
The Buddha implied that a soul exists,he just states where it IS is undeclared.
Peace and Love Brother
- gad rgyangs
- Posts: 1142
- Joined: Sat Nov 05, 2011 4:53 pm
Re: Does the soul exist in Mahayana thought?
exactly.Son of Buddha wrote: I dont see Enlightenment so is that also not real???
even if you could see them, I would hope you would at least provisionally bracket in what sense they, or anything else, is "real".I also cant see atoms are they not real????
Aretha Franklinalso the word soul is just a word,we make words to discribe a meaning.so what does soul mean to you???
Thoroughly tame your own mind.
This is (possibly) the teaching of Buddha.
"I must finally conclude that this proposition, I am, I exist, is necessarily true whenever it is put forward by me or conceived in my mind."
- Descartes, 2nd Meditation 25
This is (possibly) the teaching of Buddha.
"I must finally conclude that this proposition, I am, I exist, is necessarily true whenever it is put forward by me or conceived in my mind."
- Descartes, 2nd Meditation 25
Re: Does the soul exist in Mahayana thought?
Do you know what inference means?DarwidHalim wrote:People like to find answer based on future event.
We will just end up with speculation.
The question about soul is answered from now's event.
If now, you don't see any soul, there is no point to entertain the rest.
- DarwidHalim
- Posts: 418
- Joined: Thu Sep 22, 2011 6:04 pm
Re: Does the soul exist in Mahayana thought?
Inference based on which event? Present event or future event?
Something that has to be seen now, should be answered based on present event, not future event.
If someone has a soul, he will have a soul now and the future.
If we try to tackle the question based in future event, like rebirth or dying, you will get a fantasy answer.
You need to see present event. Where is this soul and so on?
If we want to infer, also infer based on present event.
Something that has to be seen now, should be answered based on present event, not future event.
If someone has a soul, he will have a soul now and the future.
If we try to tackle the question based in future event, like rebirth or dying, you will get a fantasy answer.
You need to see present event. Where is this soul and so on?
If we want to infer, also infer based on present event.
I am not here nor there.
I am not right nor wrong.
I do not exist neither non-exist.
I am not I nor non-I.
I am not in samsara nor nirvana.
To All Buddhas, I bow down for the teaching of emptiness. Thank You!
I am not right nor wrong.
I do not exist neither non-exist.
I am not I nor non-I.
I am not in samsara nor nirvana.
To All Buddhas, I bow down for the teaching of emptiness. Thank You!
- DarwidHalim
- Posts: 418
- Joined: Thu Sep 22, 2011 6:04 pm
Re: Does the soul exist in Mahayana thought?
Soul and god as a creator are a fantasy.Son of Buddha wrote: also the word soul is just a word,we make words to discribe a meaning.so what does soul mean to you???
Jivatman is the life principle,the continuation of life=so does rebirth not exist is their no continuation of life?
do you see these things?
again as said above Anatta does not mean no soul it means NOT Self,it has nothing to do with soul.
Majjhima Nikaya Culamalunkya Sutta 63
"The soul is the same as the body -I have left undeclared,The soul is one thing the and Body anouther -I have left undeclared."
Notice the Buddha doesnt say wether the soul exists or doesnt exist I leave undeclared
The Buddha implied that a soul exists,he just states where it IS is undeclared.
Peace and Love Brother
It is better to talk about rock and car. You can see, you can touch. And car and rock can be established as intellectual object based on its appearances.
Now, you talk about soul. Even the appearance of soul cannot be established, how can you then even talk about it?
You are talking fantasy.
Can you talk about @2345783g?
I am not here nor there.
I am not right nor wrong.
I do not exist neither non-exist.
I am not I nor non-I.
I am not in samsara nor nirvana.
To All Buddhas, I bow down for the teaching of emptiness. Thank You!
I am not right nor wrong.
I do not exist neither non-exist.
I am not I nor non-I.
I am not in samsara nor nirvana.
To All Buddhas, I bow down for the teaching of emptiness. Thank You!
Re: Does the soul exist in Mahayana thought?
DarwidHalim wrote:Inference based on which event? Present event or future event?
Something that has to be seen now, should be answered based on present event, not future event.
If someone has a soul, he will have a soul now and the future.
If we try to tackle the question based in future event, like rebirth or dying, you will get a fantasy answer.
You need to see present event. Where is this soul and so on?
If we want to infer, also infer based on present event.
Okay, incoherent and unrealistic as it might be, this might work for you, but most people have pressing questions about their post-mortem fate and whether or not such a thing as soul or something akin to it might exist.
There is nothing wrong with thinking about things and asking questions. Moreover, contemplating the past and its relationship to the future is quite probably one of the most important things a Buddhist can do as they can see the ripening from causes and conditions over time along with their own future prospects.
Your idea of ignoring and/or discrediting inference and critical thinking is simply dangerous.
- DarwidHalim
- Posts: 418
- Joined: Thu Sep 22, 2011 6:04 pm
Re: Does the soul exist in Mahayana thought?
If we want the satisfying answer for soul, we must search it now, not the future.
If now, you see no soul, it is automatic in the future there is no soul.
Buy if in the future you can conclude there is no soul, it doesn't mean you can conclude there is no soul right now when you are reading dharmawheel.
This is a main issue for 5 aggregates for example.
Some practitioners say there are aggregates now, but in the future after you die, there are no aggregates.
That is foolish. This is because they see based on future event.
It is right now, there are no 5 aggregates. No need to wait until future.
If we want to infer, infer based in right now.
Future is mind game. The answer is also mind game. It will not give a kick in our life.
This is mentioned well by Shakbar, in the flight of Garuda, we should really search within right now.
If now, you see no soul, it is automatic in the future there is no soul.
Buy if in the future you can conclude there is no soul, it doesn't mean you can conclude there is no soul right now when you are reading dharmawheel.
This is a main issue for 5 aggregates for example.
Some practitioners say there are aggregates now, but in the future after you die, there are no aggregates.
That is foolish. This is because they see based on future event.
It is right now, there are no 5 aggregates. No need to wait until future.
If we want to infer, infer based in right now.
Future is mind game. The answer is also mind game. It will not give a kick in our life.
This is mentioned well by Shakbar, in the flight of Garuda, we should really search within right now.
I am not here nor there.
I am not right nor wrong.
I do not exist neither non-exist.
I am not I nor non-I.
I am not in samsara nor nirvana.
To All Buddhas, I bow down for the teaching of emptiness. Thank You!
I am not right nor wrong.
I do not exist neither non-exist.
I am not I nor non-I.
I am not in samsara nor nirvana.
To All Buddhas, I bow down for the teaching of emptiness. Thank You!
- Karma Dondrup Tashi
- Posts: 1715
- Joined: Mon Oct 19, 2009 7:13 pm
Re: Does the soul exist in Mahayana thought?
Meh Buddhists. They ain't got no soul.gad rgyangs wrote:Aretha Franklin
It has been the misfortune (not, as these gentlemen think it, the glory) of this age that everything is to be discussed. Edmund Burke, Reflections on the Revolution in France.