How can substances alter consciousness?

General forum on the teachings of all schools of Mahayana and Vajrayana Buddhism. Topics specific to one school are best posted in the appropriate sub-forum.
Post Reply
Tiger
Posts: 61
Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2012 9:47 am

How can substances alter consciousness?

Post by Tiger »

As far as I know, consciousness is beyond form and substance according to Buddhism. It is like space. And just how if you punch in the air (space) you are not going to affect space or its properties in anyway, shouldn't any material thing also have no affect on consciousness (or mind)? Then why does our consciousness become "dim" when we take intoxicants or becomes expanded when we consume certain other drugs?

Or is it that our seventh and eighth consciousness remain unaffected by material phenomena and only sixth consciousness gets affected by chemicals and reactions (brain is a biochemical process after all?)?
Namo Amitabha Buddha
User avatar
PadmaVonSamba
Posts: 9448
Joined: Sat May 14, 2011 1:41 am

Re: How can substances alter consciousness?

Post by PadmaVonSamba »

What we refer to as cognitive awareness or "consciousness" is not a single, solitary thing, but a rapid series of events consisting primarily of neurological activity in the brain. But all that is really happening is a lot of complicated electrical and chemical interactions. "WHO" is witnessing these events, and "WHO" interprets these chemical changes as the experience of fear, of love, as sadness, and so on? The TV is on, but who is the one that is watching it?

One's "Original Mind" (for lack of a better term) in fact is not disturbed by conditional phenomena (material things).
So, it's not that your Original Mind itself becomes dim. Rather, it is the awareness of original mind which becomes obscured.
You can think of this like turning on a flashlight and then putting that flashlight into a sealed box. The flashlight is still on, but the 'activity' of the box prevents our seeing it.

You could also use the analogy of a clogged drain. We say that a drain is clogged when it is full of stuff and the water won't go down. But as far as the drain pipe is concerned, nothing has changed. It is still the same pipe. It isn't clogged. What is clogged is not the drain pipe, it is the space inside the pipe. Likewise, true consciousness or Original Mind is not blocked by contaminants. But because we don't see it, we may think that it is. When we say "the drain is clogged" we are really talking about the empty space inside the drain pipe. When we say consciousness is fogged by intoxicants, we are really referring to the path to awareness of Original Mind, not Mind itself.
Tiger wrote:As far as I know, consciousness is beyond form and substance according to Buddhism. It is like space. And just how if you punch in the air (space) you are not going to affect space or its properties in anyway, shouldn't any material thing also have no affect on consciousness (or mind)? Then why does our consciousness become "dim" when we take intoxicants or becomes expanded when we consume certain other drugs?

Or is it that our seventh and eighth consciousness remain unaffected by material phenomena and only sixth consciousness gets affected by chemicals and reactions (brain is a biochemical process after all?)?
EMPTIFUL.
An inward outlook produces outward insight.
lisehull
Posts: 130
Joined: Wed Jun 02, 2010 6:39 pm

Re: How can substances alter consciousness?

Post by lisehull »

PadmaVonSamba - your example of the clogged drain is one of the best I have ever heard (or in this case, read). Thank you for the clarity!
:namaste:
Lise
User avatar
PadmaVonSamba
Posts: 9448
Joined: Sat May 14, 2011 1:41 am

Re: How can substances alter consciousness?

Post by PadmaVonSamba »

:toilet:
lisehull wrote:PadmaVonSamba - your example of the clogged drain is one of the best I have ever heard (or in this case, read). Thank you for the clarity!
:namaste:
Lise
EMPTIFUL.
An inward outlook produces outward insight.
Huseng
Former staff member
Posts: 6336
Joined: Fri Feb 12, 2010 3:19 pm

Re: How can substances alter consciousness?

Post by Huseng »

If everything is illusory and only perceived, the narcotic and the perception it produces, be it faint or vibrant consciousness (or unconsciousness), are likewise illusory.

The physical universe and all things therein are the result of beings' collective karma, but "physicality" is no more substantial than mental activity (it is dependently originated). They are not mutually exclusive of each other, though matter depends on mind. This begs the question that if this is so, why does physical injury (or narcotics) alter the mind is very clear ways?

This is the perception of the ripening of karma.
User avatar
DarwidHalim
Posts: 418
Joined: Thu Sep 22, 2011 6:04 pm

Re: How can substances alter consciousness?

Post by DarwidHalim »

Yes, what Huseng pointed out is correct.

For anyone who has not realized the naked awareness, they will always confused the ripening of karma as the reaction. This is what the original question is - how can substances alter consciousness?

Substances cannot alter naked awareness because once you realize that even you drink a beer, you will still realize that clarity of naked awareness in the middle of karma ripening.

The karma ripening itself is sometimes called the dance of illusions, because the nature is void.

For example, if someone hits you now, and you get angry.

That angry is the ripening of your karmic behavior. You have that reactiOn because everytime someone hits you, you always react in that way, which in this process you assert that as the karmic seed in your mindstream. However, although you do that, since the nature of that karmic seed is also void, it itself is actually inseparable with naked awareness.

Someone who can stay in their naked awareness, although anger or any reaction arise, the naked awareness is undisturbed. The anger and all fruition of karmic seed becomes the support to show the voidness.

All alternation of consciousness is actually just the ripening of karmic seed, which is unique to that person.

If someone scolds you, you may get scared.
Another person may scold him back and get angry.
Another person may not have reaction, because he doesn't have I, so he never feel he got scolded.

All the reactions are the ripening of karmic seed, but since the karmic seeds are also void, for someone who knows naked awareness, the ripening of karmic seeds has no grip to shake that person.

Whether the reaction is anger, or fear, or no reaction, there is no preference to any of them.

The naked awareness is unshakeable, because all disturbances are by nature void.

So for your question:
Substances can alter consciousness is only true if you confuse that as having substance, which confused you to assert there is alternation.
I am not here nor there.
I am not right nor wrong.
I do not exist neither non-exist.
I am not I nor non-I.
I am not in samsara nor nirvana.
To All Buddhas, I bow down for the teaching of emptiness. Thank You!
User avatar
Quiet Heart
Posts: 269
Joined: Thu May 19, 2011 10:57 am
Location: Bangkok Thailand

Re: How can substances alter consciousness?

Post by Quiet Heart »

Huseng wrote:If everything is illusory and only perceived, the narcotic and the perception it produces, be it faint or vibrant consciousness (or unconsciousness), are likewise illusory.

The physical universe and all things therein are the result of beings' collective karma, but "physicality" is no more substantial than mental activity (it is dependently originated). They are not mutually exclusive of each other, though matter depends on mind. This begs the question that if this is so, why does physical injury (or narcotics) alter the mind is very clear ways?

This is the perception of the ripening of karma.
:smile:
====================
Huseng has it right.
The physical world is percieved by the eyes through the medium of light or vision, the ears through the medium of sound, and so on.
The world of "mental activity" (there must be a better term for this than mental activity....but right now I can't think of one)...is percieved through the medium of "conciousness" in that organ of perception we call our brain or sometimes our "Self".
It's easy for people to see something like vision and our eyes as arising from Dependent Origination....because they have an apparent physical existance outside of our "Self"....but people feel that their "Self" is somehow different from those physical things.
When the understanding of "Self" as also arising from Dependent Origination is understood, we can also understand that our perception of "Self" is also as much of an illusion as is our vision.
Now, just like fog can dim our vision, and many noises can confuse our hearing....so can pre-conceptions, predjudice, and misunderstandings confuse the mind or our percieved "Self"...by obscuring the "mental activity" so we do not percieve it clearly.
"Substances" or drugs obscure this mental activity.
But so do mistaken assumptions, pre-conceptions, cultural and other preconceptions also obscure our clear view of this mental activity.
Therefore, we must practice, to clear all our senses...including conciousnrss and mental activity...so we can percieve clearly.
:smile:
Shame on you Shakyamuni for setting the precedent of leaving home.
Did you think it was not there--
in your wife's lovely face
in your baby's laughter?
Did you think you had to go elsewhere (simply) to find it?
from - Judyth Collin
The Layman's Lament
From What Book, 1998, p. 52
Edited by Gary Gach
Post Reply

Return to “Mahāyāna Buddhism”