ronnewmexico wrote:I agree as has been stated here....animals are no differing from humans in this thing of karma. Ignorance is the forebearer of their state, ours is perhaps other, with ignorance as undertone.
Humans continually cause harm just by living. We for instance have mites that live in the hair foliciles on our skin and in our eyelids. Undoubtably with the scratching of a itch in these places we do indeed kill some. And how many times do we scratch a itch in such places daily.....many.
I can easily see those in the godly realm looking upon poor humans and the death and destruction they are causing just by living in the fashion they do(looking perhaps at the mites) and stateing as we perhaps may of a lion....well it is just their lot to cause such things, that is why they in the main never advance to our state so sorry and painful is their lot.
Could blame it on instinct I'd guess...one may say to another.... see they have this instinct to scratch.
And not to mention various bacteria and microbes that invariably die when we perform simple digestive functions and the small small bugs killed in the harvest of any sort of fruit or vegetable or grain even if one is the strictest of vegans.
This is no rational to not seek to perform lesser or least harm but it is invariably true we cause harm just by living as humans.
This is why we seek enlightenment not just for our own sake but for others we harm in the gross form.
Karma.....no sentient being to my opinion is free from karma. If sense of self is present, even present in the most minimal form, as a amoeba may seek to advert a prick, karma is at play.
Animals however can be directed as muni suggests to a more cerebral way of looking at things with time and effort. As such animals can rebirth as humans and humans can rebirth as animals given propensity to cultivate the baser aspects of the human reality. When we die it seems the habit or tendency to act determins rebirth for most. There is no guarantee we remain human nor god nor animal. Some humans it may be observed, the karma that allows them to rebirth as humans presently is quickly expireing due to bad deeds and as such it may be observed they obtain the characteristics most closely associated with the animal realm, a life characterized by greed overt ignorance and baser desires that must be saitiated. Animals much as we like to romanticize our companions in this realm are always ignorant as predominant aspect and this ignorance leads to their birth as animals. While we are ignorant we have other predominance coupled with a compassionate aspect that directs our tendencies to a human birth.
YOu want to assure a human future rebirth....act compassionately that is all.
YOu want to assure a animal rebirth....act ignorantly in all things that is all.
Monkeys are not very far from us. To give or allow them to steal such a thing...probably produces a bad result for the monkey. It should not be done, expecially not to entertain humans. That would be particularly bad for the human as well as monkey.
You have to realize that "ownership" is humanmade, it is based on who has the most terrible weapons, etc...
There are studies in the field of biology about the principles that animals have that correspond to "ownership". There is no "stealing" before you have a consensus in the society about ownership. Ownership is based on need.
An obvious example are the cultivated fields
that humans have, do they not constitute stealing from many other species of life ?
This example exists in the buddhist history of the world, according to which long ago humans lived on a higher level, where cultivation of land had not yet appeared. This legendary account of the beginning of the world period also explains how stealing appears!
You can find it in several sutras of the Hinayana, and also in the books of Abhidharma.
About karma: it has been defined, by Guru Rimpoche and elsewhere, that a karmic deed requires consciousness and decision. If your purpose is to wash yourself in order not to be unpleasant to others, it is a karmic deed. The killing of some tiny creatures was not your intention and your purpose in your washing, and therefore this latter aspect does not create karma.