Can other religions lead to enlightenment?

General discussion, particularly exploring the Dharma in the modern world.
[N.B. This is the forum that was called ‘Exploring Buddhism’. The new name simply describes it better.]
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oushi
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Re: Can other religions lead to enlightenment?

Postby oushi » Thu Sep 06, 2012 10:32 am

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Re: Can other religions lead to enlightenment?

Postby Yudron » Thu Sep 06, 2012 10:45 am

Author of Buddhist young adult fiction. Vlogger at Wisdom and Compassion: Grandma Yudron's Totally Chill Vlog on Meditation and Tibetan Wisdom Blogger at Very active on Twitter.

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DeepFriedFunk
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Re: Can other religions lead to enlightenment?

Postby DeepFriedFunk » Thu Sep 06, 2012 1:11 pm

I do believe it could be possible within another religion but very difficult. In most cases it does require correct direction and a good teacher. A lot of spiritual leaders are directly or indirectly affected by corruption in their religions, particularly within Christianity, Judaism and Islam. The sheer amount of evil committed in the name of a lot of mainstream religions sends up alarm bells to me. This is not to say they are wrong or all of the followers are bad people or that wrong has never been in the name of the Buddha. I went from being Catholic to atheist and finally coming to find Buddhism after feeling there was something missing.

Since becoming Buddhist I have read more of the word of Jesus than I ever did as a Catholic (in fact I read more as an atheist but with the intention of picking arguments with my Religious Education teachers at the Catholic high school i belonged to.) He was a good, pure man but I believe his words have been twisted - after all the bible was written by the most powerful men in Europe who really needed control of the population. Those who have knowledge have power.

A man who objected to the temples of his day because of corruption and taught in the streets and on the hills could not have possibly condoned the concept of the Church we see today.

Buddhism to me shows the most honesty and the least amount of corruption within it's teachers - the sheer fact we are taught we can all attain the level of the very person we worship was a very alien thought to me.

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Nicholas Weeks
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Re: Can other religions lead to enlightenment?

Postby Nicholas Weeks » Thu Sep 06, 2012 3:14 pm

Bodhi is not the same as full Buddhahood. There are stages of the former, some of which can be experienced by anyone on any path. Buddhahood requires the teachings from a Buddha.
A bodhisattva does not become weary of evil beings nor does he commit the error of bringing forth thoughts inclined to reject them and cast them aside. Avatamsaka Sutra, ch. 25

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Karma Dondrup Tashi
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Re: Can other religions lead to enlightenment?

Postby Karma Dondrup Tashi » Thu Sep 06, 2012 3:40 pm


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Ikkyu
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Re: Can other religions lead to enlightenment?

Postby Ikkyu » Thu Sep 06, 2012 10:11 pm

"Nothing can be known, not even this."
-- Arcesilaus (but I'm not sure)

(cutting through bullshit, and sometimes failing... that's ok, though)


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Queequeg
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Re: Can other religions lead to enlightenment?

Postby Queequeg » Thu Sep 06, 2012 10:53 pm

Another one of those questions that just stubbornly won't go away...

Here's an answer that stubbornly won't go away:

If other religions lead to Enlightenment, then yes, they lead to Enlightenment.

"Objection! What is enlightenment?"

Answer: "Exactly!" :hi:
“Once you have given up the ghost, everything follows with dead certainty, even in the midst of chaos.”
-Henry Miller

"Language is the liquid that we're all dissolved in.
Great for solving problems, after it creates a problem."
-Modest Mouse

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Re: Can other religions lead to enlightenment?

Postby Queequeg » Fri Sep 07, 2012 5:27 pm

“Once you have given up the ghost, everything follows with dead certainty, even in the midst of chaos.”
-Henry Miller

"Language is the liquid that we're all dissolved in.
Great for solving problems, after it creates a problem."
-Modest Mouse

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Quiet Heart
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Re: Can other religions lead to enlightenment?

Postby Quiet Heart » Sat Sep 08, 2012 1:57 am

:smile:
My personal opinion.
Religions....including Buddhisim....don't make people more "spiritual" or "enlightened".
It's people who do that themselves...by their own efforts.
So it's certainly possible to find a Christian, Moslem, Hindu...or whtever religion or they are called that meets that standard of "enlightenment".
Now, whether certain religions...including Buddhisim....make it easier to get to that high level....well that could be debated for hours.
And basically that whole debate is pointlesss anyhow....just because it's the people...not the religions....that detrmine how high they ultimately go.
:smile:
Shame on you Shakyamuni for setting the precedent of leaving home.
Did you think it was not there--
in your wife's lovely face
in your baby's laughter?
Did you think you had to go elsewhere (simply) to find it?
from - Judyth Collin
The Layman's Lament
From What Book, 1998, p. 52
Edited by Gary Gach

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Re: Can other religions lead to enlightenment?

Postby greentara » Sat Sep 08, 2012 11:04 am

Let us be very clear, spirituality is not the exclusive domain of an individual or a specific religion. We are all equally qualified to receive the teachings that will free us from the cycle of life and death. Sincerity is the sole qualification which determines whether we discover the right teacher to remove our ignorance. The Sanskrit word "sraddha" can be variously translated as faith, sincerity, and duty. There can be no teaching en mass, every person is on a different level and has to be catered for accordingly.
You can reside in a buddhist country but few are interested in the teaching on a deeper level.
You can live in Bethlehem, the last I heard the christian monks from different denominations were fighting with one another.
In Judaism how many are really interested in Kabala?
How many christians have heard of the extraordinary teacher Meister Eckhart?
It's just the way it is.

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Re: Can other religions lead to enlightenment?

Postby DGA » Sat Sep 08, 2012 1:09 pm


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vinodh
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Re: Can other religions lead to enlightenment?

Postby vinodh » Sat Sep 08, 2012 2:10 pm

I recollect this topic being discussed to death in the erstwhile e-sangha :thinking:

And a consensus was reached.. :quoteunquote:

(It's not hard for anyone to guess.. what that would have been though ! )

V
http://www.virtualvinodh.com

yo dharmaṁ paśyati, sa buddhaṁ paśyati

One who sees the Dharma, sees the Buddha
śālistamba sūtra

na pudgalo na ca skandhā buddho jñānamanāsravam
sadāśāntiṁ vibhāvitvā gacchāmi śaraṇaṁ hyaham

Neither a person nor the aggregates, the Buddha, is knowledge free from [evil] outflows
Clearly perceiving [him] to be eternally serene, I go for refuge [in him]
saddharma-laṅkāvatāra-sūtra

dorjeshonnu
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Re: Can other religions lead to enlightenment?

Postby dorjeshonnu » Sat Sep 08, 2012 4:44 pm


dorjeshonnu
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Re: Can other religions lead to enlightenment?

Postby dorjeshonnu » Sat Sep 08, 2012 4:53 pm


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pueraeternus
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Re: Can other religions lead to enlightenment?

Postby pueraeternus » Sun Sep 09, 2012 1:35 am

If you believe certain words, you believe their hidden arguments. When you believe something is right or wrong, true of false, you believe the assumptions in the words which express the arguments. Such assumptions are often full of holes, but remain most precious to the convinced.

- The Open-Ended Proof from The Panoplia Prophetica

oldbob
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Re: Can other religions lead to enlightenment?

Postby oldbob » Sun Sep 09, 2012 7:50 pm

Many excellent posts. :good:

What is important is to keep sincere respect for all religions, even when they say they are superior to yours, or when they hate you and would kill you for your different beliefs. Of course you don't respect the hatred and the killing, but the spark of enlightenment, the potential of enlightenment is within everyone, even the worst of the worst.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buddha-nature

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Early Indian Buddhism
Nikayas - Luminous mind

The idea of the tathagatagarbha is grounded on sayings by the Buddha that there is an innately pure luminous mind[6] (prabhasvara citta[7]), "which is only adventitiously covered over by defilements (agantukaklesa)"[7] This luminous mind is being mentioned in the Anguttara Nikaya:[8]:

Luminous, monks, is the mind. And it is defiled by incoming defilements".[9][b]

The Mahāsāṃghika coupled this idea of the luminous mind with the idea of the mulavijnana, the substratum consciousness that serves as the basis consciousness.[6]

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

I cannot say that Moses' experience of the burning bush, from the Holy Old Testament, was different from the luminosity of Buddha Nature.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burning_bush

I cannot say that "I am the Alpha and the Omega" from the Holy New Testament, is not pointing to the same state, beyond words, of Lord Buddha.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alpha_and_Omega

I cannot say that the "Light upon light" from the Holy Koran, is not the same luminosity of Buddha Nature.

Sahih International 24:35
Allah is the Light of the heavens and the earth. The example of His light is like a niche within which is a lamp, the lamp is within glass, the glass as if it were a pearly [white] star lit from [the oil of] a blessed olive tree, neither of the east nor of the west, whose oil would almost glow even if untouched by fire. Light upon light. Allah guides to His light whom He wills. And Allah presents examples for the people, and Allah is Knowing of all things.

Really - who can say? So I :bow: respect the Buddha seed in everyone of all religions, and understand religious traditions, beliefs, ceremonies, and practices in the context of the cultures that they originated from, and are existing in now.

:smile:

dorjeshonnu
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Re: Can other religions lead to enlightenment?

Postby dorjeshonnu » Sun Sep 09, 2012 8:05 pm


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Re: Can other religions lead to enlightenment?

Postby treehuggingoctopus » Sun Sep 09, 2012 8:25 pm

Last edited by treehuggingoctopus on Sun Sep 09, 2012 8:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
. . . there they saw a rock! But it wasn't a rock . . .

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viniketa
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Re: Can other religions lead to enlightenment?

Postby viniketa » Sun Sep 09, 2012 8:26 pm

. ~

oldbob
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Re: Can other religions lead to enlightenment?

Postby oldbob » Sun Sep 09, 2012 9:00 pm



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