Buddha nature misunderstood as atman.

General discussion, particularly exploring the Dharma in the modern world.
[N.B. This is the forum that was called ‘Exploring Buddhism’. The new name simply describes it better.]
User avatar
DarwidHalim
Posts: 418
Joined: Thu Sep 22, 2011 6:04 pm

Buddha nature misunderstood as atman.

Postby DarwidHalim » Thu Sep 06, 2012 2:12 am

I am not here nor there.
I am not right nor wrong.
I do not exist neither non-exist.
I am not I nor non-I.
I am not in samsara nor nirvana.
To All Buddhas, I bow down for the teaching of emptiness. Thank You!

SSJ3Gogeta
Posts: 189
Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2012 3:26 am

Re: Buddha nature misunderstood as atman.

Postby SSJ3Gogeta » Thu Sep 06, 2012 2:41 am


SSJ3Gogeta
Posts: 189
Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2012 3:26 am

Re: Buddha nature misunderstood as atman.

Postby SSJ3Gogeta » Thu Sep 06, 2012 2:52 am

In Mahamudra, a tantric tradition, Buddha nature simply refers to the nature of mind, which is also known by many other terms in that tradition.
Last edited by SSJ3Gogeta on Thu Sep 06, 2012 3:12 am, edited 3 times in total.

User avatar
DarwidHalim
Posts: 418
Joined: Thu Sep 22, 2011 6:04 pm

Re: Buddha nature misunderstood as atman.

Postby DarwidHalim » Thu Sep 06, 2012 2:52 am

There is no differences.

We must know the pitfall of language. Some sutras may stress on a particular subject, but other sutras may already states this nonduality. So in any cases, the view on particular Sutta must always be connected with the teaching of other sutras. In this way, the pitfal of language can be avoided.

We cannot just take 1 Sutta and treat it as independent, because each Sutta just focus on specific subject. And if we do that, we can fall into some externality or nihilist, which actually not the intention of that Sutta, because this nonduality has been stated somewhere else.
I am not here nor there.
I am not right nor wrong.
I do not exist neither non-exist.
I am not I nor non-I.
I am not in samsara nor nirvana.
To All Buddhas, I bow down for the teaching of emptiness. Thank You!

User avatar
DarwidHalim
Posts: 418
Joined: Thu Sep 22, 2011 6:04 pm

Re: Buddha nature misunderstood as atman.

Postby DarwidHalim » Thu Sep 06, 2012 2:59 am

I am not here nor there.
I am not right nor wrong.
I do not exist neither non-exist.
I am not I nor non-I.
I am not in samsara nor nirvana.
To All Buddhas, I bow down for the teaching of emptiness. Thank You!

User avatar
Jyoti
Posts: 289
Joined: Fri Aug 10, 2012 3:07 pm
Location: Taiwan

Re: Buddha nature misunderstood as atman.

Postby Jyoti » Thu Sep 06, 2012 4:02 am


User avatar
DarwidHalim
Posts: 418
Joined: Thu Sep 22, 2011 6:04 pm

Re: Buddha nature misunderstood as atman.

Postby DarwidHalim » Thu Sep 06, 2012 5:50 am

In our daily ignorant world, there are even no people will mention permanent dream. Only foolish people will say that. Dream is just dream.

Likewise, if we know Buddha nature is not permanent, then don't say that as permanent. If we know Buddha nature is not impermanent, don't say that as impermanent Buddha nature.

Just Buddha nature.

Because if you say permanent Buddha nature, you are like saying permanent dream. Where can you find permanent dream in this universe?

Even ignorant people know saying permanent dream is a mistake.

Likewise, saying permanent Buddha nature is mistake in daily language.
I am not here nor there.
I am not right nor wrong.
I do not exist neither non-exist.
I am not I nor non-I.
I am not in samsara nor nirvana.
To All Buddhas, I bow down for the teaching of emptiness. Thank You!

User avatar
Jyoti
Posts: 289
Joined: Fri Aug 10, 2012 3:07 pm
Location: Taiwan

Re: Buddha nature misunderstood as atman.

Postby Jyoti » Thu Sep 06, 2012 6:13 am


Andrew108
Posts: 1502
Joined: Sun Sep 11, 2011 7:41 pm

Re: Buddha nature misunderstood as atman.

Postby Andrew108 » Thu Sep 06, 2012 6:22 am

To say that the basis is permanent is to give it a quality that it doesn't have by itself.
The Blessed One said:

"What is the All? Simply the eye & forms, ear & sounds, nose & aromas, tongue & flavors, body & tactile sensations, intellect & ideas. This, monks, is called the All. Anyone who would say, 'Repudiating this All, I will describe another,' if questioned on what exactly might be the grounds for his statement, would be unable to explain, and furthermore, would be put to grief. Why? Because it lies beyond range." Sabba Sutta.

User avatar
catmoon
Former staff member
Posts: 3283
Joined: Thu Nov 19, 2009 3:20 am
Location: British Columbia

Re: Buddha nature misunderstood as atman.

Postby catmoon » Thu Sep 06, 2012 6:39 am

How about:

Buddha nature must be either permanent or impermanent.

If permanent it is atman.

If impermanent then it must come to and end and all Buddhas must lose their Buddhahood.

Since neither position is tenable, Buddha nature is neither permanent nor impermanent and cannot exist.
Sergeant Schultz knew everything there was to know.

User avatar
DarwidHalim
Posts: 418
Joined: Thu Sep 22, 2011 6:04 pm

Re: Buddha nature misunderstood as atman.

Postby DarwidHalim » Thu Sep 06, 2012 7:16 am

I am not here nor there.
I am not right nor wrong.
I do not exist neither non-exist.
I am not I nor non-I.
I am not in samsara nor nirvana.
To All Buddhas, I bow down for the teaching of emptiness. Thank You!

User avatar
viniketa
Posts: 820
Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2012 2:39 am
Location: USA

Re: Buddha nature misunderstood as atman.

Postby viniketa » Thu Sep 06, 2012 7:19 am

. ~

User avatar
catmoon
Former staff member
Posts: 3283
Joined: Thu Nov 19, 2009 3:20 am
Location: British Columbia

Re: Buddha nature misunderstood as atman.

Postby catmoon » Thu Sep 06, 2012 8:09 am

There are other possibilities as well. For instance there may exist things that are neither permanent nor impermanent, which would invalidate the first statement in the argument. Or to put it another way, the union of the two sets "permanent" and "impermanent" may not be equivalent to the whole of reality.
so there's still room to play, but it's still an interesting exercise in formal logic.
Sergeant Schultz knew everything there was to know.

User avatar
oushi
Posts: 1596
Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2012 6:18 am

Re: Buddha nature misunderstood as atman.

Postby oushi » Thu Sep 06, 2012 11:08 am

No category can describe reality. It is ungraspable. As such, Buddha nature cannot be understood, or misunderstood. It is directly known, so cannot be incorporated into understanding.
Say what you think about me

User avatar
Nothing
Posts: 110
Joined: Sun Aug 19, 2012 5:39 pm

Re: Buddha nature misunderstood as atman.

Postby Nothing » Thu Sep 06, 2012 11:36 am

Buddha nature is within every one of us.....like a sun in the sky but covered with clouds.....these clouds have to be removed before the sun can shine.
Buddha nature is just a description of what you are, your potential to become....to know the truth.....within yourself.
This is why it is termed as the "awakened one" for reasons because the human being as it is, is NOT awakened and does not know!

There is a saying in a film: "Have you ever had a dream that it was so real, what if you were never to wake up from that dream, how would you know the difference between the dream world and the real world"

It is telling you, the human being is currently in a dream world, to them, it is real and they are aware of it, yet the human being does not know that they are actually in a dream because the being is not awake. When the being is awakened, the being then knows that the world they thought they knew were actually not true, hence the saying.....how would you know the difference between the dream world and the real world?

The word "awakened" is very fitting and you will know when you know!

Another thing, the truth cannot be told, it must be realized by oneself.....in the mind.

User avatar
seeker242
Posts: 1204
Joined: Sat Mar 17, 2012 2:50 pm
Location: South Florida, USA

Re: Buddha nature misunderstood as atman.

Postby seeker242 » Thu Sep 06, 2012 1:23 pm

One should not kill any living being, nor cause it to be killed, nor should one incite any other to kill. Do never injure any being, whether strong or weak, in this entire universe!

User avatar
Nosta
Posts: 877
Joined: Tue Apr 13, 2010 10:28 pm

Re: Buddha nature misunderstood as atman.

Postby Nosta » Thu Sep 06, 2012 1:33 pm

Buddha nature must be permanent. When you "reach"/find (whatever) your buddha nature (or: when you reach nirvana) you will never loose it.

Buddha nature is permanent in that sense.

User avatar
Aemilius
Posts: 1996
Joined: Sat Mar 27, 2010 11:44 am

Re: Buddha nature misunderstood as atman.

Postby Aemilius » Thu Sep 06, 2012 2:14 pm

svaha

User avatar
Jyoti
Posts: 289
Joined: Fri Aug 10, 2012 3:07 pm
Location: Taiwan

Re: Buddha nature misunderstood as atman.

Postby Jyoti » Thu Sep 06, 2012 2:50 pm


User avatar
Karma Dondrup Tashi
Posts: 1517
Joined: Mon Oct 19, 2009 7:13 pm

Re: Buddha nature misunderstood as atman.

Postby Karma Dondrup Tashi » Thu Sep 06, 2012 2:55 pm



Return to “Dharma in Everyday Life”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 12 guests