Females who achieved rainbow body

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Re: Females who achieved rainbow body

Postby username » Tue Sep 04, 2012 6:45 pm

IMO as well as many other great Dzogchen masters, YMMV which is OK by me, Dudjom Lingpa & Dudjom Rinpoche were the most realized beings of their time. The fact that so many of their disciples who achieved rainbow body via their terma does not mean they achieved anything near the stage of their master. There are many possible reasons why a rainbow body is not intended by such great beings (as noted/quoted in earlier posts here), same is true with someone of rare realization level of Ayu Khandro.
Dzogchen masters I know say: 1)Buddhist religion essence is Dzogchen 2)Religions are positive by intent/fruit 3)Any method's OK unless: breaking Dzogchen vows, mixed as syncretic (Milanese Soup) 4)Don't join mandalas of opponents of Dalai Lama/Padmasambhava: False Deity inventors by encouraging victims 5)Don't debate Ati with others 6)Don't discuss Ati practices online 7) A master told his old disciple: no one's to discuss his teaching with some others on a former forum nor mention him. Publicity's OK, questions are asked from masters/set teachers in person/email/non-public forums~Best wishes
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Re: Females who achieved rainbow body

Postby deepbluehum » Tue Sep 04, 2012 8:15 pm

Username said:
IMO as well as many other great Dzogchen masters, YMMV which is OK by me,


You are and the many other great Dzogchen masters?
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Re: Females who achieved rainbow body

Postby username » Tue Sep 04, 2012 8:49 pm

Most Dzogchen masters in the 4 TB schools are Nyingma in terms of numbers and many of them, if not most of them, & their masters like Chatral, Dilgo khyentse, Trulshik etc. etc., often stated Dudjom Lingpa & then Jigdrel Yeshe (mind emanation) were more realized than anyone else in their time including their rainbow disciples when they were alive. My opinion, often wrong as a bad follower of Dzogchen masters, does not matter nor do I really listen to people making their own novel creation using Dzogchen plus other doctrines for a business as we unfortunately see in the west these days but other Dzogchenpas & their masters' opinions though if they think another master was the most realized is perfectly fine by me as I said & indeed right for them. I don't really care about this realization levels announcements: just stating what the greatest Nyingma masters including school heads often said. Secondly the point being made was that as stated for various reasons here someone not manifesting rainbow body does not necessary mean being less realized than others, including those followers getting it via their terma, which is why those 2 Dudjoms & their rainbow disciples were being mentioned to prove a point for Ayu Khandro's case.
Dzogchen masters I know say: 1)Buddhist religion essence is Dzogchen 2)Religions are positive by intent/fruit 3)Any method's OK unless: breaking Dzogchen vows, mixed as syncretic (Milanese Soup) 4)Don't join mandalas of opponents of Dalai Lama/Padmasambhava: False Deity inventors by encouraging victims 5)Don't debate Ati with others 6)Don't discuss Ati practices online 7) A master told his old disciple: no one's to discuss his teaching with some others on a former forum nor mention him. Publicity's OK, questions are asked from masters/set teachers in person/email/non-public forums~Best wishes
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Re: Females who achieved rainbow body

Postby username » Wed Sep 05, 2012 12:02 am

deepbluehum wrote:Username said:
Conceptual vehicles' fruits do not really compare to the fruits of Dzogchen's 4 visions/thogal & if they claim so it is false.


I'm not saying that you are wrong. I merely would like to point out that Garchen Rinpoche, a man widely believed to be realized in Dzogchen and Mahamudra, told me the following: The Four Yogas of Mahamudra and the Four Visions of Thogal correspond one to one and both can result in Rainbow Body. He repeated that in his Ganges Mahamudra transmission that you can even achieve Rainbow Body if you want to. In my talk with him he said the different results of leaving relics etc., is to show disciples their commitments. He repeated several times that there is no difference in the results of the lineages. I'm still a bit baffled by his comments. But I'll take it at face value and with a grain of salt. There are many stories of Mahamudra mahasiddhas leaving no remains behind. There is a clear anecdotal history of rainbow bodies in 84 mahasiddha lineage. I also agree that Thogal is a very privileged and special method not like anything else, extremely fast and it is the effortless path beyond cause and effect. That's the most amazing thing to me. The fact that Ayu Khandro spent something like 50 years practicing yangti and didn't achieve rainbow is telling us something. High hopes at this point is not very important.


Yes it was me who posted Tulku Urgyen Rinpoche's book quote here very recently saying the 84 mahasiddhas & 24 of 25 disciples of Padma achieved rainbow body. No point quoting my post & saying that to me the next day as something new! However the 84 mahasiddhas did not mix Vajrayana with Hinduism as you often do openly here nor did they make plans to teach such novel creations to others. In fact Guru Rinpoche warned in his prophecies about people in future mixing Dzogchen with other paths as new ideologies. This is one of the worst things anyone can do. Finally the fact that Ayu Khandro did not manifest rainbow body tells us nothing negative about yangti or her level of realization as students of her students did achieve it.
Dzogchen masters I know say: 1)Buddhist religion essence is Dzogchen 2)Religions are positive by intent/fruit 3)Any method's OK unless: breaking Dzogchen vows, mixed as syncretic (Milanese Soup) 4)Don't join mandalas of opponents of Dalai Lama/Padmasambhava: False Deity inventors by encouraging victims 5)Don't debate Ati with others 6)Don't discuss Ati practices online 7) A master told his old disciple: no one's to discuss his teaching with some others on a former forum nor mention him. Publicity's OK, questions are asked from masters/set teachers in person/email/non-public forums~Best wishes
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Re: Females who achieved rainbow body

Postby mutsuk » Wed Sep 05, 2012 7:26 pm

To stick to the subject of this thread, you can also read about the life-story of Kunga Bum in the following reference :

Jean-Luc Achard, Dzogchen Magyü, The History of the Mother Tantras of the Great Perfection, PDF ed., Khyung-mkhar 2011, pp. 16-23.

Künga Bum was a female tertön and a master of the second Dungtso Repa (who discovered the Yangti Sergyi Druchik cycle). She is said to have reached the Rainbow-Diamond Body (‘ja’ lus rdo rje’i sku) in 1371 or 1383 (there are still uncertainties about her dates).
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Re: Females who achieved rainbow body

Postby Pero » Wed Sep 05, 2012 7:29 pm

mutsuk wrote:
Pero wrote:Thanks a lot for sharing that! :twothumbsup:
I wonder if the fifth is Norbu Rinpoche, since he taught trekcho from (a) Yangti Nagpo of CCD last year. Although even if this is one and the same he probably got it from CCD's son and not CCD himself.


Yes I wonder too. I'm pretty sure this must be Norbu Rinpoche but it's a wonder why the author did not mention him. Politics maybe?

I'm just listening to the replay and Rinpoche said that he received it from CCD's son.
Although many individuals in this age appear to be merely indulging their worldly desires, one does not have the capacity to judge them, so it is best to train in pure vision.
- Shabkar
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Re: Females who achieved rainbow body

Postby Nighthawk » Tue Mar 05, 2013 6:04 am

How about Machig Labdron the founder of chod?
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Re: Females who achieved rainbow body

Postby lionheart » Tue Mar 19, 2013 5:14 am

Yeshe Tsogyal went rainbow and took two of her disciples with her at the end of her namthar I believe.
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Re: Females who achieved rainbow body

Postby zenman » Fri May 02, 2014 9:16 pm

arsent wrote:In 1953 Ayu Khandro attained rainbow body.
One of her students is Chogyal Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche.
Incarnations

In 2004 His Eminence Khempo Yurmed Tinly Rinpoche (Abbot of both Gantay Monastery and Zilnon Kagyeling Monastery-- as well as the Dalai Lama's choice to represent the Nyingma school of Tibetan Buddhism at the United Nations Millennium World Peace Summit) recognized one of his students as the reincarnation of Ayu Khandro. She was born in 1963, and lives in the United States.

[/quote]

Does Norbu Rinpoche acknowledge this recognition?
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Re: Females who achieved rainbow body

Postby Gwenn Dana » Fri May 02, 2014 10:16 pm

I do not quite get the sense of the OP question to start with :-)
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