Dharma Wheel

A Buddhist discussion forum on Mahayana and Vajrayana Buddhism
It is currently Mon Dec 22, 2014 8:59 pm

All times are UTC [ DST ]


Forum rules


Please click here to view the forum rules



Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 22 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Wed Jul 21, 2010 6:36 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jan 20, 2010 6:36 am
Posts: 4027
Location: Spaceship Earth
Objective reviews for Dzogchen books can be tough to find, and every Dzogchen book review on Amazon.com is always 4.5 - 5 stars.

So what do you all recommend?

_________________
    How foolish you are,
    grasping the letter of the text and ignoring its intention!
    - Vasubandhu


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jul 21, 2010 8:04 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Jan 07, 2010 6:44 pm
Posts: 1565
The Practice of Dzogchen by Longchen Rabjam trans. by Tulku Thondup Rinpoche

Buddhahood Without Meditation by Dudjom Lingpa

and
If you are authorized to buy it; The Yeshe Lama by Jigme Lingpa that Snow Lion publishes as a restricted text.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jul 21, 2010 10:02 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Dec 15, 2009 3:19 am
Posts: 1030
Location: Southern Oregon
Aside from the ones Nangwa mentioned, which are beyond excellent, I also like Tsoknyi Rinpoche's "Fearless Simplicity" and "Quintessential Dzogchen," which is a collection of Dzogchen teachings by various masters, including Tulku Urgyen Rinpoche, Shakya Shri, Tsoknyi Rinpoche, Tsele Natsok Rangdrol, and so on.

Of all the texts mentioned so far, the Yeshe Lama is the most complete presentation of Dzogchen from A - Z, but of course as Nangwa indicated, one needs to have received the Yeshe Lama empowerments and the lung of the text, and it's really something to receive in depth, thorough teachings on rather than self-study alone. One would really profit from it the most by also going on to do retreat on the Khorde Rushen practices in a complete way according to the lineage before then being guided through the main practices. That's the way Yeshe Lama is practiced according to its own lineage.


Last edited by Pema Rigdzin on Wed Jul 21, 2010 10:05 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jul 22, 2010 11:48 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2010 2:11 pm
Posts: 1999
Location: France
To those proposed, with The Practice of Dzogchen ahead ... there is the serie "The Seven Treasuries" of Longchen Rabjam, and specailly "The Way of Abiding"

Sönam

_________________
By understanding everything you perceive from the perspective of the view, you are freed from the constraints of philosophical beliefs.
By understanding that any and all mental activity is meditation, you are freed from arbitrary divisions between formal sessions and postmeditation activity.
- Longchen Rabjam -


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Jul 23, 2010 9:07 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2010 2:11 pm
Posts: 1999
Location: France
and we all forgot The Supreme Source, Kunjed Gyalpo, proposed by ChNN

_________________
By understanding everything you perceive from the perspective of the view, you are freed from the constraints of philosophical beliefs.
By understanding that any and all mental activity is meditation, you are freed from arbitrary divisions between formal sessions and postmeditation activity.
- Longchen Rabjam -


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Jul 23, 2010 7:57 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Apr 06, 2009 9:04 pm
Posts: 1727
I found "Heart Drops of Dharmakaya: Dzogchen Practice of the Bon Tradition" quite amazing, but I don't practice Dzogchen, so my opinions in this area don't matter very much. I also enjoy any book by Tulku Urgyen Rinpoche.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Jul 24, 2010 11:25 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jan 20, 2010 6:36 am
Posts: 4027
Location: Spaceship Earth
Thanks for the recommendations everyone. Looks like I've got some reading to do.

_________________
    How foolish you are,
    grasping the letter of the text and ignoring its intention!
    - Vasubandhu


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Jul 24, 2010 11:26 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jan 20, 2010 6:36 am
Posts: 4027
Location: Spaceship Earth
Pema Rigdzin wrote:

Of all the texts mentioned so far, the Yeshe Lama is the most complete presentation of Dzogchen from A - Z, but of course as Nangwa indicated, one needs to have received the Yeshe Lama empowerments and the lung of the text, and it's really something to receive in depth, thorough teachings on rather than self-study alone. One would really profit from it the most by also going on to do retreat on the Khorde Rushen practices in a complete way according to the lineage before then being guided through the main practices. That's the way Yeshe Lama is practiced according to its own lineage.


Hi Pema Rigdzin,

Is this empowerment given often?

_________________
    How foolish you are,
    grasping the letter of the text and ignoring its intention!
    - Vasubandhu


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jul 25, 2010 8:54 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Dec 15, 2009 3:19 am
Posts: 1030
Location: Southern Oregon
It doesn't seem like it is. It actually includes 2 or more empowerments and lengthy pointing out instructions and supporting teachings that are given at appropriate places during the course of teaching practically the whole manual, so it's somewhat time consuming... Like, probably no less than 5 days. Maybe that explains why it's not given very frequently. I know Yangthang Rinpoche gave it in like 2007 at Tashi Choling in Southern Oregon, and a lama whose name escapes me apparently gave it at Tsultrim Allione's main retreat center a few yrs ago. If it's been given more than those times in recent yrs, it wasn't publicized very well. Maybe you could request it from Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche. It would be extremely worth your while.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jul 25, 2010 2:29 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jan 20, 2010 6:36 am
Posts: 4027
Location: Spaceship Earth
Pema Rigdzin wrote:
It doesn't seem like it is. It actually includes 2 or more empowerments and lengthy pointing out instructions and supporting teachings that are given at appropriate places during the course of teaching practically the whole manual, so it's somewhat time consuming... Like, probably no less than 5 days. Maybe that explains why it's not given very frequently. I know Yangthang Rinpoche gave it in like 2007 at Tashi Choling in Southern Oregon, and a lama whose name escapes me apparently gave it at Tsultrim Allione's main retreat center a few yrs ago. If it's been given more than those times in recent yrs, it wasn't publicized very well. Maybe you could request it from Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche. It would be extremely worth your while.


Thanks Pema, I will look into it.

_________________
    How foolish you are,
    grasping the letter of the text and ignoring its intention!
    - Vasubandhu


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jul 26, 2010 3:59 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Jan 07, 2010 6:44 pm
Posts: 1565
mr. gordo wrote:
Pema Rigdzin wrote:

Of all the texts mentioned so far, the Yeshe Lama is the most complete presentation of Dzogchen from A - Z, but of course as Nangwa indicated, one needs to have received the Yeshe Lama empowerments and the lung of the text, and it's really something to receive in depth, thorough teachings on rather than self-study alone. One would really profit from it the most by also going on to do retreat on the Khorde Rushen practices in a complete way according to the lineage before then being guided through the main practices. That's the way Yeshe Lama is practiced according to its own lineage.


Hi Pema Rigdzin,

Is this empowerment given often?


The complete rigpai tsal wang isnt given very often.
Its a pretty unique empowerment.
Norbu Rinpoche gives the first part (the pointing out ) in many of his webcasts.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jul 26, 2010 7:46 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jan 20, 2010 6:36 am
Posts: 4027
Location: Spaceship Earth
Nangwa wrote:
The complete rigpai tsal wang isnt given very often.
Its a pretty unique empowerment.
Norbu Rinpoche gives the first part (the pointing out ) in many of his webcasts.


Hi Nangwa,

I'll have to check as to whether I've received it now as I haven't taken a webcast in many years and am not sure if he gave it at the retreat I went to.

Does this first part allow me to view the book?

_________________
    How foolish you are,
    grasping the letter of the text and ignoring its intention!
    - Vasubandhu


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jul 27, 2010 3:55 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Jan 07, 2010 6:44 pm
Posts: 1565
mr. gordo wrote:
Nangwa wrote:
The complete rigpai tsal wang isnt given very often.
Its a pretty unique empowerment.
Norbu Rinpoche gives the first part (the pointing out ) in many of his webcasts.




Does this first part allow me to view the book?


I dont think so.
I do know that some students of his have purchased the book, but I dont know their individual histories.
Since Norbu Rinpoche doesnt teach Togal publicly I dont think webcast students are authorized to purchase the book.
Its best to get the Rigpai tsal wang in person and in its complete form before studying the Yeshe Lama.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jul 27, 2010 9:26 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jan 20, 2010 6:36 am
Posts: 4027
Location: Spaceship Earth
OK, thanks Nangwa!

_________________
    How foolish you are,
    grasping the letter of the text and ignoring its intention!
    - Vasubandhu


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jul 28, 2010 4:39 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Apr 14, 2009 2:34 am
Posts: 1069
dzogchen is not a book......lol

it is your real nature.



so i recommend you greet your real nature, and not a book.

make contact with authentic spiritual friend.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jul 28, 2010 8:32 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Dec 15, 2009 3:19 am
Posts: 1030
Location: Southern Oregon
Heruka,

Mr. Gordo has a Dzogchen lama and has received the pointing out from him. I don't believe he's trying to, or expecting to, "get Dzogchen from a book." It's not as though it's pointless to study texts treating Dzogchen, otherwise there would be no Dzogchen tantras and masters like Longchenpa wouldn't have wasted their time composing things like the 7 Treasuries. Mr Gordo just wanted to know what requirements there were to study the Yeshe Lama text.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jul 28, 2010 4:32 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Jun 09, 2010 1:18 pm
Posts: 359
Pema Rigdzin wrote:
Heruka,

Mr. Gordo has a Dzogchen lama and has received the pointing out from him. I don't believe he's trying to, or expecting to, "get Dzogchen from a book." It's not as though it's pointless to study texts treating Dzogchen, otherwise there would be no Dzogchen tantras and masters like Longchenpa wouldn't have wasted their time composing things like the 7 Treasuries. Mr Gordo just wanted to know what requirements there were to study the Yeshe Lama text.


It's always tricky about reading Dzogchen books.
In one tradition (actually the mainstream tradition: Patrul Rinpoche-Nyushu Longdor-Khenpo Ngawang), it's almost forbidden for beginners to read Dzogchen books, even they have received Dzogchen empowerment and Lung. Once someone got the instruction, firstly he should go for retreat for months or years, and then come back to check if it fits the book. If you know what might happen in advance, you might have expectings and worries, which are very bad for Dzogchen practice.
But nowadays people know more and want to know even more; actually people know much about Dzogchen before they receive Dzogchen... Some lama said 'yes, you can read'... maybe that's also a way when people already know part of it. Maybe it's still worse to know particially and think 'hmm, i know a lot'.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jul 28, 2010 11:42 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Dec 15, 2009 3:19 am
Posts: 1030
Location: Southern Oregon
narraboth wrote:
It's always tricky about reading Dzogchen books.
In one tradition (actually the mainstream tradition: Patrul Rinpoche-Nyushu Longdor-Khenpo Ngawang), it's almost forbidden for beginners to read Dzogchen books, even they have received Dzogchen empowerment and Lung. Once someone got the instruction, firstly he should go for retreat for months or years, and then come back to check if it fits the book. If you know what might happen in advance, you might have expectings and worries, which are very bad for Dzogchen practice.
But nowadays people know more and want to know even more; actually people know much about Dzogchen before they receive Dzogchen... Some lama said 'yes, you can read'... maybe that's also a way when people already know part of it. Maybe it's still worse to know particially and think 'hmm, i know a lot'.


Well, this can tend to be very true. I think people who have not yet had the opportunity to do in depth, guided retreat on the Dzogchen teachings they've received (particularly retreat on the outer, inner, and secret Khorde Rushen) need to examine their minds and determine if they're likely to have that habit of holding onto to concepts/expectations/assumptions/conclusions before deciding whether or not to read such texts. Or they could simply have the discipline to only study the portion of the text explaining how to do the particular practice they're currently working on to clarify and refresh their understanding.

In the end, hopefully all people seriously interested in Dzogchen can have the opportunity - and will try to create the opportunity - to engage in the transmissions and instructions they've received with qualified guidance in a retreat setting. I hope anyone reading this for whom that's not a possibility right now doesn't get the wrong idea or become discouraged. Of course, until that time, one can always be training as best one can and making progress. Guided retreat, particularly on the Rushens, is just the optimal context.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jul 29, 2010 1:32 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Apr 14, 2009 2:34 am
Posts: 1069
Pema Rigdzin wrote:
I hope anyone reading this for whom that's not a possibility right now doesn't get the wrong idea or become discouraged. Of course, until that time, one can always be training as best one can and making progress. Guided retreat, particularly on the Rushens, is just the optimal context.



Dear pema and naraboth-la's,

you are both correct, It makes for discussion traffic is all.

:namaste:


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Sep 06, 2010 7:59 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Aug 31, 2010 8:54 pm
Posts: 1850
mr. gordo wrote:
Objective reviews for Dzogchen books can be tough to find, and every Dzogchen book review on Amazon.com is always 4.5 - 5 stars.

So what do you all recommend?


My favourite is The Crystal And The Way Of Light, it's easy to read and easy to understand. Recently I've been thinking of reading it for the 3rd or 4th time.

Other than that, one of the best books I've read, if not the best other book, was Dilgo Khyentse Rinpoche's Primordial Purity. I'm not sure it counts because it's restriced unless you've had direct introduction. You can get it at Namse Bangdzo Bookstore.

I've read most of Dudjom Rinpoche's Buddhahood Without Meditation but throughout I had a strong impression it's not really a book to just read but also practice. Actually I felt kind of like I'm reading about how to do a practice haha. So I put it down to read another time when I'll put it to more practical use. Though I think it can still clarify some points.

Another book that I though was amazing is Dilgo Khyentse's Crystal Cave. I've had a chance to look at it when I was in Yeselling (Austrian Ling of DC). It's a actually a collection of various teachings. I think I remember one member of E-Sangha saying it was mind blowing and after reading parts of it I could see why he thought that way. They sell it at Rangjung Yeshe but unfortunatelly, this one is restricted even more. Not only do you need direct introduction but also need finished preliminaries.

At the same time I saw Flight of the Garuda translated by Erik Pema Kunsang (I think the former too). It's also been translated by Keith Dowman, however the impression I got from looking at excerpts was that Erik's is much better. Unfortunatelly this one too is restricted in the same way.

_________________
Although many individuals in this age appear to be merely indulging their worldly desires, one does not have the capacity to judge them, so it is best to train in pure vision.
- Shabkar


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 22 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 19 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group