Which Of The 17 Dzogchen Tantras Have Been Published?

amanitamusc
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Re: Which Of The 17 Dzogchen Tantras Have Been Published?

Postby amanitamusc » Mon Sep 03, 2012 10:24 pm

ALL THESE POSTS ON TIBETAN TEXTS AND YOU'RE SUGGESTED CHOICE FOR LEARNING TIBETAN HAS INSPIRED
ME TO PURCHASE "MANUAL OF STANDARD TIBETAN" THANK YOU MALCOLM

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Re: Which Of The 17 Dzogchen Tantras Have Been Published?

Postby Yudron » Mon Sep 03, 2012 10:36 pm

Author of Buddhist young adult fiction. Vlogger at Wisdom and Compassion: Grandma Yudron's Totally Chill Vlog on Meditation and Tibetan Wisdom Blogger at Very active on Twitter.

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Re: Which Of The 17 Dzogchen Tantras Have Been Published?

Postby ngodrup » Tue Sep 04, 2012 3:12 am

Woo-hoo. Yudron!
Second hand Dzogchen, is no Dzoghcgen.

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Re: Which Of The 17 Dzogchen Tantras Have Been Published?

Postby Pero » Tue Sep 04, 2012 5:41 am

Although many individuals in this age appear to be merely indulging their worldly desires, one does not have the capacity to judge them, so it is best to train in pure vision.
- Shabkar

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Re: Which Of The 17 Dzogchen Tantras Have Been Published?

Postby Sönam » Tue Sep 04, 2012 7:59 am

By understanding everything you perceive from the perspective of the view, you are freed from the constraints of philosophical beliefs.
By understanding that any and all mental activity is meditation, you are freed from arbitrary divisions between formal sessions and postmeditation activity.
- Longchen Rabjam -

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Re: Which Of The 17 Dzogchen Tantras Have Been Published?

Postby Sherlock » Tue Sep 04, 2012 9:35 am

Actually Malcolm himself once remarked that based on everything currently available in English, one can theoretically attain rainbow body already. We can read more Dzogchen texts if we know English compared to an illiterate cowherd.

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Re: Which Of The 17 Dzogchen Tantras Have Been Published?

Postby Yudron » Tue Sep 04, 2012 4:33 pm

Author of Buddhist young adult fiction. Vlogger at Wisdom and Compassion: Grandma Yudron's Totally Chill Vlog on Meditation and Tibetan Wisdom Blogger at Very active on Twitter.

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Re: Which Of The 17 Dzogchen Tantras Have Been Published?

Postby Pero » Tue Sep 04, 2012 6:31 pm

Although many individuals in this age appear to be merely indulging their worldly desires, one does not have the capacity to judge them, so it is best to train in pure vision.
- Shabkar

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Re: Which Of The 17 Dzogchen Tantras Have Been Published?

Postby Yudron » Tue Sep 04, 2012 11:39 pm

Pero, translation and reading a foreign language are two very different things. I will never be a translator, but even at my very low (and slow) level of reading Tibetan, I get much much more out out reading Longchenpa's Cho Ying Dzod in Tibetan than even in Barron's amazing translation.

Say, for example, you have really learned what yeshe means. After so many years, in your gut, you really know what yeshe means without having to detour though "wisdom" or "primordial wisdom" or "timeless awareness." Then, you really know that yeshe is none of those things, exactly. Then, reading English translations of Dzogchen texts starts to feel as a vague and somewhat confusing approximation of actual Dzogchen.

These books aren't supposed to be read like modern fiction, wolfed down like a pizza. Reading even one line of the Cho Ying Dzod is a profound pointing out instruction. Thanks to Padma Publishing, we have a version with the Tibetan on one page and the English on the facing page. Even if we just learn the Tibetan alphabet and look up the words in the Rangjyung Yeshe dictionary, one by one, over a week--I would argue it would bring our practice forward immensely. It's timeless subjectless, objectless wisdom geared to communicate the absolute meaning to real practitioners. We can look about how Barron renders a word, we can compare it to Eric Pema Kunsang or Jim Valby. How different the flavor would be, translated by each! Then, we can look in the footnotes to Cascading Waterfall of Nectar to see how Thinley Norbu Rinpoche -- an actual contemporary fully realized Buddha -- preferred to render it.

Pero, it's amazing! You can have Longchenpa in your pocket everywhere you go. Yes, lots of people drop out of school saying such and such a millionaire dropped out of school and he still gained riches. Sure, some illiterate shepherds characterized by both great faith in their lama and great diligence in practice have attained the ultimate fruition... but is that really how we think we are likely to do it? We westerners have endless questions we need to be answered, then we feel confident enough to decide to be diligent.

I'm not lecturing you, I'm really lecturing myself... hoping that I won't let my Tibetan slide now that I am outside of retreat setting.
Author of Buddhist young adult fiction. Vlogger at Wisdom and Compassion: Grandma Yudron's Totally Chill Vlog on Meditation and Tibetan Wisdom Blogger at Very active on Twitter.

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Re: Which Of The 17 Dzogchen Tantras Have Been Published?

Postby arsent » Wed Sep 05, 2012 4:20 am


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Re: Which Of The 17 Dzogchen Tantras Have Been Published?

Postby krodha » Wed Sep 05, 2012 6:22 am

In 3 separate places I've found 3 different deities being referenced to as the black wrathful goddess in the "Black Wrathful Goddess Tantra"...

In the OP I copied the run-down of the 17 Tantras from a website which listed the Black Wrathful Goddess Tantra (nag mo khros ma); as referring to a black form of Vajrayogini (khros ma nag mo).

In another more in depth run-down I found done by Khenpo Ngakchung it lists this tantra as the Tantra of The Wrathful Black Guardian Shri Ekajati, which resembles a sharp razor, describes how to protect the practitioner against harms inflicted by others. Obviously referencing Ekajati.

And then on Vajranatha's website he has this as referencing Simhamukha: The secret sadhana (gsang sgrub) is for the exceedingly wrathful black Krodha Kali Simhamukha (khros-ma nga-mo), "the wrathful black goddess", who appears to annihilate the delusion of ego, symbolized by the insatiable demon king Rudra, much like Durga cutting the head off the demon king Mahisha. The secret sadhana is also connected with the practice of Chod (gcod), the severing or cutting off of the ego. For this reason, this form of Simhamukha is also called Vajra Nairatma (rDo-rje bdag-med-ma), “she who destroys the notion of an ego.”

Which deity is actually being discussed in this tantra?

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Re: Which Of The 17 Dzogchen Tantras Have Been Published?

Postby heart » Wed Sep 05, 2012 1:31 pm

"We are all here to help each other go through this thing, whatever it is."
~Kurt Vonnegut

"The principal practice is Guruyoga. But we need to understand that any secondary practice combined with Guruyoga becomes a principal practice." ChNNR (Teachings on Thun and Ganapuja)

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Re: Which Of The 17 Dzogchen Tantras Have Been Published?

Postby Malcolm » Wed Sep 05, 2012 1:35 pm





འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


Free of hope and fear, relax.
Human life spent in
a state of great spaciousness is enjoyable.


— Kunzang Dechen Lingpa

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Re: Which Of The 17 Dzogchen Tantras Have Been Published?

Postby Pero » Wed Sep 05, 2012 5:48 pm

Although many individuals in this age appear to be merely indulging their worldly desires, one does not have the capacity to judge them, so it is best to train in pure vision.
- Shabkar

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Bj Lhundrup
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Re: Which Of The 17 Dzogchen Tantras Have Been Published?

Postby Bj Lhundrup » Thu Sep 06, 2012 8:51 pm

Anyone know the names that are used in the TsamDrak & TingKye editions for this tantra that goings by these names?
nag mo khros ma.
khros ma nag mo.
bka’ srung nag mo’i rgyud.
bka’ srung nag mo’i snying thun gsang ba.
sngags srung gsang rgyud.

These names are not in both those editions and I need to know what title they go by in these two version of the NGB.

thanks
L

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Re: Which Of The 17 Dzogchen Tantras Have Been Published?

Postby Karma Dondrup Tashi » Tue Sep 11, 2012 10:41 pm


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Re: Which Of The 17 Dzogchen Tantras Have Been Published?

Postby Yudron » Tue Sep 11, 2012 10:55 pm

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Re: Which Of The 17 Dzogchen Tantras Have Been Published?

Postby Lhug-Pa » Tue Sep 11, 2012 11:57 pm

About how long would it take a Dzogchen practitioner who is between lower and medium scope at best regarding their capacity—yet who also has average or slightly-above-average intellectual-faculties—to learn Tibetan well enough in order to at least 'somewhat grasp' the sense of what is written in the 17 (+2) Dzogchen Upadesha Tantra's?

(Assuming that one has to give no more than say 30 to 45 hours a week of their total time to a job and/or non-Tibetan-related schooling)

Would be great to soon see the rest of Richard Barron's English translations of Longchen Rabjam's Seven Treasuries.

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Re: Which Of The 17 Dzogchen Tantras Have Been Published?

Postby Sönam » Wed Sep 12, 2012 7:34 am

By understanding everything you perceive from the perspective of the view, you are freed from the constraints of philosophical beliefs.
By understanding that any and all mental activity is meditation, you are freed from arbitrary divisions between formal sessions and postmeditation activity.
- Longchen Rabjam -

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Malcolm
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Re: Which Of The 17 Dzogchen Tantras Have Been Published?

Postby Malcolm » Fri Sep 14, 2012 4:15 pm





འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


Free of hope and fear, relax.
Human life spent in
a state of great spaciousness is enjoyable.


— Kunzang Dechen Lingpa


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