May I please intrude in a forum where I do not belong and muddy the waters of the OP's question which I should not do?steveb1 wrote:Thus: I simply asked a question about Amida Buddha and about his sutras and the Masters who taught about him.
http://books.google.com/books?id=nC5WPK ... e&q&f=true" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Now that I have as usual annoyed everybody I shall leave.
Ta ta.
God n stuff
- Karma Dondrup Tashi
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God n stuff
I thought about posting this reply on the Pure Land forum but then thought better of it and shall now let drop here.
It has been the misfortune (not, as these gentlemen think it, the glory) of this age that everything is to be discussed. Edmund Burke, Reflections on the Revolution in France.
Re: God n stuff
Actually, in Christian theology, non-existence is one of God's attributes. Since "existence" means "to arise out of", and God does not arise from anything (unlike everything that exists), then non-existence is one of God's properties. Uncaused Cause, Prime Mover Unmoved, First Cause, - etc. - are words that indicate God's "place" outside of things that arise. Chains of cause and effect, arising, decay, re-arising, are traits of "Creation" but God stands outside these processes and is not influenced by them. Hence, in a very true Christian-theological sense, it is appropriate to say, "God is real, but does not exist".
Re: God n stuff
Indeed. Buddha refused to comment on whether god exists or does not exist. He said we all have enough to stress over what with birth, sickness, old-age, dying, and all that wanting-the-greener-pasture-over-the-next-fence...
If they can sever like and dislike, along with greed, anger, and delusion, regardless of their difference in nature, they will all accomplish the Buddha Path.. ~ Sutra of Complete Enlightenment
- Thomas Amundsen
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Re: God n stuff
You sure about that? I remember him describing how Brahma was the first being born in our universe, wished for man to be created, and beings started appearing. The Buddha noted that it was only a coincidence that beings started to be born in this world, while Brahma incorrectly thought that he had created them.viniketa wrote:Indeed. Buddha refused to comment on whether god exists or does not exist. He said we all have enough to stress over what with birth, sickness, old-age, dying, and all that wanting-the-greener-pasture-over-the-next-fence...
Also, with Madhyamaka, you can't have a first cause. So there is no god.
Re: God n stuff
Sure as anyone can be about what Buddha said and didn't say. I can't find the specific sutta (yes, it's in Pali), but this is the lounge so...tomamundsen wrote:You sure about that? I remember him describing how Brahma was the first being born in our universe, wished for man to be created, and beings started appearing. The Buddha noted that it was only a coincidence that beings started to be born in this world, while Brahma incorrectly thought that he had created them.
Also, with Madhyamaka, you can't have a first cause. So there is no god.
Do you recall the sutrā about Brahma? Do you recall how he said Brahma was 'born'? As for 'first cause', even with a capital "G", God doesn't necessarily mean a creator god...
As this is not a forum on comparative religion per the TOS, I'm done with the topic.
If they can sever like and dislike, along with greed, anger, and delusion, regardless of their difference in nature, they will all accomplish the Buddha Path.. ~ Sutra of Complete Enlightenment
- Thomas Amundsen
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- Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2011 2:50 am
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- Contact:
Re: God n stuff
It's in the Brahamajala Sutta, starting around verse 42.viniketa wrote:Sure as anyone can be about what Buddha said and didn't say. I can't find the specific sutta (yes, it's in Pali), but this is the lounge so...tomamundsen wrote:You sure about that? I remember him describing how Brahma was the first being born in our universe, wished for man to be created, and beings started appearing. The Buddha noted that it was only a coincidence that beings started to be born in this world, while Brahma incorrectly thought that he had created them.
Also, with Madhyamaka, you can't have a first cause. So there is no god.
Do you recall the sutrā about Brahma? Do you recall how he said Brahma was 'born'? As for 'first cause', even with a capital "G", God doesn't necessarily mean a creator god...
As this is not a forum on comparative religion per the TOS, I'm done with the topic.
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .bodh.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Re: God n stuff
I went through few religions now, and the best description of God/Father that I can recall, is in Gospel of Thomas. Entire conflict between theists and atheists is irrelevant.
Say what you think about me here.
Re: God n stuff
Hm, I don't think it's irrelevant. If the Theists are right then we'd all have to abandon the Dharma, tear down the monasteries and put up cathedrals.oushi wrote:I went through few religions now, and the best description of God/Father that I can recall, is in Gospel of Thomas. Entire conflict between theists and atheists is irrelevant.
Sergeant Schultz knew everything there was to know.
Re: God n stuff
How dare anyone question teh Ceiling Cat.....If the Theists are right then we'd all have to abandon the Dharma, tear down the monasteries and put up cathedrals.
Re: God n stuff
Before you tear down monasteries, go read the gospel. Not only will you preserve monasteries, but you will also enter cathedrals like home.catmoon wrote:Hm, I don't think it's irrelevant. If the Theists are right then we'd all have to abandon the Dharma, tear down the monasteries and put up cathedrals.oushi wrote:I went through few religions now, and the best description of God/Father that I can recall, is in Gospel of Thomas. Entire conflict between theists and atheists is irrelevant.
His disciples said to him, "When will the kingdom come?"
"It will not come by watching for it. It will not be said, 'Look, here!' or 'Look, there!' Rather, the Father's kingdom is spread out upon the earth, and people don't see it."
Say what you think about me here.
Re: God n stuff
To which one can only reply,plwk wrote:How dare anyone question teh Ceiling Cat.....
Now where were we? Seems to me we did have a topic around here at one time....
Sergeant Schultz knew everything there was to know.
Re: God n stuff
Also...oushi wrote:Before you tear down monasteries, go read the gospel. Not only will you preserve monasteries, but you will also enter cathedrals like home.catmoon wrote:Hm, I don't think it's irrelevant. If the Theists are right then we'd all have to abandon the Dharma, tear down the monasteries and put up cathedrals.oushi wrote:I went through few religions now, and the best description of God/Father that I can recall, is in Gospel of Thomas. Entire conflict between theists and atheists is irrelevant.
His disciples said to him, "When will the kingdom come?"
"It will not come by watching for it. It will not be said, 'Look, here!' or 'Look, there!' Rather, the Father's kingdom is spread out upon the earth, and people don't see it."
Luke 17: 20-21
20 Now when He was asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, He answered them and said, “The kingdom of God does not come with observation; 21 nor will they say, ‘See here!’ or ‘See there!’[d] For indeed, the kingdom of God is within you.”
Re: God n stuff
I should have been more accurate in my statement. The Acintita Sutta is what I was thinking of:viniketa wrote:Indeed. Buddha refused to comment on whether god exists or does not exist.
Brahmā is mentioned in a couple of suttas, including the Brahmajāla and Kevatta, but not as being 'born'. Brahmā is only one aspect of 'God', limited to creation. So, Buddha does not discuss whether or not Brahmā created the world. 'Brahman' (note spelling) would be closest to the 'God of Abraham'. Buddha does not mention Brahman to my knowledge, nor the 'personal' aspect of 'God', Īśvara. Reference to a 'servant of Brahman' should be spelled 'brahmin', though it's often spelled brahma or brahman.Conjecture about [the origin, etc., of] the world is an unconjecturable that is not to be conjectured about, that would bring madness & vexation to anyone who conjectured about it.
If they can sever like and dislike, along with greed, anger, and delusion, regardless of their difference in nature, they will all accomplish the Buddha Path.. ~ Sutra of Complete Enlightenment
- Karma Dondrup Tashi
- Posts: 1715
- Joined: Mon Oct 19, 2009 7:13 pm
Re: God n stuff
Not the God of Aquinas for sure.tomamundsen wrote:Also, with Madhyamaka, you can't have a first cause. So there is no god.
But the Womb of the Thus-Come-One to whom it is appropriate to demonstrate devotion and which out of love embodied in human form to lift humanity out of suffering into ungraspable presence?
Well - why not?
I bow low to my master Samantabhadra with grateful tears. Gate, Gate, Paragate, Parasamgate, Bodhi Swaha.
Beyond existence/nonexistence: ungraspability/radiance/love.
PS: There are countless Buddhas like grains of sand on the beach.
It has been the misfortune (not, as these gentlemen think it, the glory) of this age that everything is to be discussed. Edmund Burke, Reflections on the Revolution in France.
Re: God n stuff
Does anyone know when NOW started, and when it's going to end?
Say what you think about me here.
Re: God n stuff
Yes.....
NOW
[or should that be.. THEN?]
NOW
[or should that be.. THEN?]
More about Mindfulness here
http://bemindful.co.uk/
" A Zen master's life is one continuous mistake."
(Dogen).
http://bemindful.co.uk/
" A Zen master's life is one continuous mistake."
(Dogen).
Re: God n stuff
Ok, lets do it again. When NOW ends next time, immediately raise your hand, and reply to this post afterward.Osho wrote:Yes.....
NOW
[or should that be.. THEN?]
Say what you think about me here.
Re: God n stuff
Sergeant Schultz knew everything there was to know.
Re: God n stuff
OK we're in a new NOW now.
All hail the cat!
All hail the cat!
More about Mindfulness here
http://bemindful.co.uk/
" A Zen master's life is one continuous mistake."
(Dogen).
http://bemindful.co.uk/
" A Zen master's life is one continuous mistake."
(Dogen).