Females who achieved rainbow body

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Re: Females who achieved rainbow body

Postby Jyoti » Sun Sep 02, 2012 3:18 pm

mutsuk wrote:Then how come this is not the opinion of sanskritists or tibetologists ? But always that of sinologists... Your view is biaised.


It is otherwise for buddhist scholars especially of malayana who care about the lost indian mahayana scriptures that have being preserved in the chinese tripitaka. Those who are attached to Tibetan buddhism, vajrayana and dzogchen, they may not care about these mahayana scriptures, but that is to their own lost.

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Re: Females who achieved rainbow body

Postby mutsuk » Sun Sep 02, 2012 3:22 pm

Jyoti wrote:It is otherwise for buddhist scholars especially of malayana who care about the lost indian mahayana scriptures that have being preserved in the chinese tripitaka. Those who are attached to Tibetan buddhism, vajrayana and dzogchen, they may not care about these mahayana scriptures, but that is to their own lost.

You're wrong. I did not had in mind any tantric or dzogchen material but rather the gigantic collection of Mahayana texts (which far exceeds the rest of tantric and other works) and it's precisely on these that one can see how far from the actual meaning the chinese works are. They should be considered as "compositions" based on non-sinic sources made for chinese audience. But these are everything else but translations.
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Re: Females who achieved rainbow body

Postby Yudron » Sun Sep 02, 2012 3:33 pm

Jyoti wrote:
Yudron wrote:
Jyoti wrote: I have read all of Dudjom Lingpa's specific collections on Togal and rainbow body from chinese translations.
Jyoti


I'm curious who is making these texts available in Chinese, and where they are published, etc. I can't read Chinese, I'm just a Dudjom geek.

Some of the Dzogchen texts of Dudjom Lingpa are said to be quite challenging to translate into English, even by the most senior practitioner/translators. Consequently there are some well-intentioned, but very bad, translations out there.


A little mistake there, I have the Dudjom Lingpa's Nyingma School of Tibetan Buddhism in the Tibetan to chinese translated version, this give complete historical account of rainbow bodies, I agreed on the difficulty of translation here.

The specific collections on Togal in chinese were of Kunga Rinpoche's work.

Jyoti


The Nyingma School of Tibetan Buddhism is by Kyabje Dudjom Rinpoche (Jigdral Yeshe Dorje), Dudjom Lingpa's next incarnation. You said you had received "all of Dudjom Lingpa's special collections on Togal." The History (here known informally as "the big red book") does not contain any of Dudjom Lingpa's writings on Togal. The Dudjom lineage has specific prerequisites for Dzogchen practice, based on Dudjom Lingpa and Kyabje Dudjom Rinpoche's instructions. Then, once has truly turned one's mind to the Dharma, stabilized one's practice, and developed some measure of faith and devotion towards one's lama and lineage, then Dzogchen (as such) is introduced.

You may be a humble and sublime practitioner, but I should tell you that in the Dudjom tradition telling people that one has received such-and-such a high practice is viewed as a symptom of pride, and pride is viewed as a major obstacle to one's practice. I am therefore humbly suggesting that you stop making claims about connection to the Dzogchen tradition of Dudjom Lingpa so-as not create obstacles for yourself to meet and receive transmission teachings from an authentic master of this amazing tradition.
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Re: Females who achieved rainbow body

Postby Jyoti » Sun Sep 02, 2012 4:04 pm

mutsuk wrote:You need be in a hurry, or you haven't reflected enough on the four mind-turnings.


Well, it is actually due to having reflected enough, that other things like four reliances take precedence. If one never reflect nor analyse the dharma, then the reliance on another person is the nature course to take.

So say you. But you don't understand that there are rainbow bodies with remains and others without. There are four kinds of rainbow bodies.


Only the differences of the sign, not the differences of the rainbow bodies themselves.

You are messed up in the vocabulary. 'Od-lus is the classical expression used in Dzogchen Tantras to refer to 'ja'-lus. Then you have to distinguish 'od-lus/'ja'-lus from rdul-lus (atom body). Once this is clear for you, then you should understand the process and the four levels at stake in the obtainment of these 4 rainbow bodies. Saying things like "there is no exception", etc. means you haven't read enough and don't know what these rainbow bodies are and how they are obtained.


No, the accomplished sign of trekcho is the rainbow body, whereas the accomplished sign of togal is the light body. But due to togal is actually inseparable from trekcho, thus practitioner of togal also manifest rainbow body due to not having perfected the four visions of togal.

The principle of Thogel is to reach a complete familiarization with the rtsal of Rigpa culminating in the 4th vision.


Yes, but this is not the whole picture, without mentioning other elements, you still not aware of the actual principle, nor understand how the principle functions.

This is entirely based on the 42 key-points. Lacking those key-points (starting with the six basic ones), you won't contemplate the rtsal of Rigpa at all. That's as basic as that.


This is just the conditional means, not the actual means and principle that is related to the basis. In term of this (your heavy reliance for methods) I say the yogacara is superior, as it is the direct perception of the reason.

Furthermore, you have to know that reaching such a rainbow body is not an aim, it's a sign.


I never say it is an aim, but a good thing to know.

If you are referring to stuff like Neidan (內丹)and other techniques in used in the Longmen (龙门)and other schools, then it's clear you don't understand what Thogel is about. Or maybe you'd care being more explicit?


Even within Neidan (內丹), the practice differed with the various masters, so be careful when you try to judge the practice based on the teaching of a particular master only. I did read a few master 'direct instructions' and these contained the 'key' to understand Neidan (內丹), the scripture of Neidan (內丹) cannot be understood literally without understanding the hidden meaning that can be reveal by relying on these 'keys'.

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Re: Females who achieved rainbow body

Postby Jyoti » Sun Sep 02, 2012 4:26 pm

Yudron wrote:You may be a humble and sublime practitioner, but I should tell you that in the Dudjom tradition telling people that one has received such-and-such a high practice is viewed as a symptom of pride, and pride is viewed as a major obstacle to one's practice. I am therefore humbly suggesting that you stop making claims about connection to the Dzogchen tradition of Dudjom Lingpa so-as not create obstacles for yourself to meet and receive transmission teachings from an authentic master of this amazing tradition.


In the previous post I already clarify the mistake that I actually refer to Kunga Rinpoche's collection on togal. So I don't understand your expression of protecting the tradition of Dudjom Lingpa.

Kunga Rinpoche is from Karmapa but he attained the rainbow body. He made a courtesy to the chinese by revealing the dzogchen teaching in his books without holding back anything. We should follow his example, instead of hiding the truth that is beneficial to beings.

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Re: Females who achieved rainbow body

Postby Yudron » Sun Sep 02, 2012 4:31 pm

Jyoti wrote:[quote="Yudron"
The Nyingma School of Tibetan Buddhism is by Kyabje Dudjom Rinpoche (Jigdral Yeshe Dorje), Dudjom Lingpa's next incarnation. You said you had received "all of Dudjom Lingpa's special collections on Togal." The History (here known informally as "the big red book") does not contain any of Dudjom Lingpa's writings on Togal. The Dudjom lineage has specific prerequisites for Dzogchen practice, based on Dudjom Lingpa and Kyabje Dudjom Rinpoche's instructions. Then, once has truly turned one's mind to the Dharma, stabilized one's practice, and developed some measure of faith and devotion towards one's lama and lineage, then Dzogchen (as such) is introduced.

You may be a humble and sublime practitioner, but I should tell you that in the Dudjom tradition telling people that one has received such-and-such a high practice is viewed as a symptom of pride, and pride is viewed as a major obstacle to one's practice. I am therefore humbly suggesting that you stop making claims about connection to the Dzogchen tradition of Dudjom Lingpa so-as not create obstacles for yourself to meet and receive transmission teachings from an authentic master of this amazing tradition.


In the previous post I already clarify the mistake that I actually refer to Kunga Rinpoche's collection on togal. So I don't understand your expression of protecting the tradition of Dudjom Lingpa.

Kunga Rinpoche is from Karmapa but he attained the rainbow body. He made a courtesy to the chinese by revealing the dzogchen teaching in his books without holding back anything. We should follow his example, instead of hiding the truth that is beneficial to beings.

Jyoti[/quote]

I am not a Dzogchen master, so I do not have the capacity to judge what is best for sentient beings as regards how to present Dzogchen. Neither am I a lineage holder with the authority to determine the direction the lineage will take in this regard. But I have faith in the lineage holders of Dudjom Lingpa's tradition-- who are fully realized masters of Dzogchen--to make these determinations.
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Re: Females who achieved rainbow body

Postby Jyoti » Sun Sep 02, 2012 4:37 pm

mutsuk wrote:
Jyoti wrote:It is otherwise for buddhist scholars especially of malayana who care about the lost indian mahayana scriptures that have being preserved in the chinese tripitaka. Those who are attached to Tibetan buddhism, vajrayana and dzogchen, they may not care about these mahayana scriptures, but that is to their own lost.

You're wrong. I did not had in mind any tantric or dzogchen material but rather the gigantic collection of Mahayana texts (which far exceeds the rest of tantric and other works) and it's precisely on these that one can see how far from the actual meaning the chinese works are. They should be considered as "compositions" based on non-sinic sources made for chinese audience. But these are everything else but translations.


If you can understand chinese and able to distinguish the scriptures of definitive meaning and rely on them, you will appreciate their existence. But I assume you only have mahayana scriptures not of chinese tripitaka, or of english translated chinese mahayana scriptures of non-definitive meaning, then I agree with you, but the poor english translation and non-definitive meaning is not the fault of the chinese language.

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Re: Females who achieved rainbow body

Postby Jyoti » Sun Sep 02, 2012 4:42 pm

Yudron wrote:I am not a Dzogchen master, so I do not have the capacity to judge what is best for sentient beings as regards how to present Dzogchen. Neither am I a lineage holder with the authority to determine the direction the lineage will take in this regard. But I have faith in the lineage holders of Dudjom Lingpa's tradition-- who are fully realized masters of Dzogchen--to make these determinations.


I understand, but those in the position to reveal the precious teaching should follow the example of Kunga Rinpoche. Teacher like this easily earn my respect than those who make the teaching difficult to reach by others.

Good luck.

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Re: Females who achieved rainbow body

Postby Yudron » Sun Sep 02, 2012 4:57 pm

Jyoti wrote:
Yudron wrote:I am not a Dzogchen master, so I do not have the capacity to judge what is best for sentient beings as regards how to present Dzogchen. Neither am I a lineage holder with the authority to determine the direction the lineage will take in this regard. But I have faith in the lineage holders of Dudjom Lingpa's tradition-- who are fully realized masters of Dzogchen--to make these determinations.


I understand, but those in the position to reveal the precious teaching should follow the example of Kunga Rinpoche. Teacher like this easily earn my respect than those who make the teaching difficult to reach by others.

Good luck.

Jyoti


Well, you're entitled to your opinion, and you will find lots of support for it on this board.

My personal observation is that reading a bunch about Dzogchen when one has little foundation in practice, and little direct personal guidance from a master, creates more demons than Buddhas.

We start on the path as beings with our capacity of clear seeing completely obscured by karma and afflictive emotions. The kindest lama is one who tells us what we need to know, even when it challenges our concepts and seems opposite to our usual way of thinking and operating. Dzogchen masters, in a word, are (and should be) irritating.

There are many Kunga Rinpoches, which one is he? Can you give a link to a bio in English? I've never known a Kunga who wasn't Sakya.
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Re: Females who achieved rainbow body

Postby mutsuk » Sun Sep 02, 2012 5:47 pm

Jyoti wrote: If one never reflect nor analyse the dharma, then the reliance on another person is the nature course to take.

You don't seem to understand that for tantra and dzogchen a master is crucial.

Only the differences of the sign, not the differences of the rainbow bodies themselves.

No they are pretty much different, in terms of "waves of blessings" and capacity to liberate others. This is beyond mere atmospheric signs and other similar things.

No, the accomplished sign of trekcho is the rainbow body, whereas the accomplished sign of togal is the light body.

Wrong, the body obtained through Trekcho practice is the rdul-lus (atomic body) and it is precisely characterized as not manifesting any light at all.

But due to togal is actually inseparable from trekcho, thus practitioner of togal also manifest rainbow body due to not having perfected the four visions of togal.

You are misunderstanding the principles. Read Longchenpa's Theg-mchog-mdzod where he explains the differences very clearly. Your explanation is your idea about these things, not how they are explained in traditional texts and oral instructions.

Yes, but this is not the whole picture, without mentioning other elements, you still not aware of the actual principle, nor understand how the principle functions.

The way this principle functions is quite clear to me. I am curious to read how you'd describe it.

This is just the conditional means, not the actual means and principle that is related to the basis. In term of this (your heavy reliance for methods) I say the yogacara is superior, as it is the direct perception of the reason.

Then it simply means you don't understand the value of Thogel teachings and the superiority of its view, techniques and results. Yogacara cannot compare...

Even within Neidan (內丹), the practice differed with the various masters, so be careful when you try to judge the practice based on the teaching of a particular master only. I did read a few master 'direct instructions' and these contained the 'key' to understand Neidan (內丹), the scripture of Neidan (內丹) cannot be understood literally without understanding the hidden meaning that can be reveal by relying on these 'keys'.

Most certainly but if you think Neidan (內丹) has anything to do with Thogel you simply don't understand Thogel.
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Re: Females who achieved rainbow body

Postby mutsuk » Sun Sep 02, 2012 5:59 pm

Jyoti wrote:If you can understand chinese and able to distinguish the scriptures of definitive meaning and rely on them, you will appreciate their existence.

Sure I can appreciate their existence but they cannot compare with original tibetan texts. I have read several of Fahai Lama's (法海喇嘛) translations into Chinese of Tibetan texts such as the Yangti (仰的) teachings, etc. These texts are filled with Chan conceptions and ideas promoting the superiority of Chan teachings over Dzogchen, out of pathetic patriotic agendas. This simple fact disqualifies such "translations". So their existence might interest those who are unfortunately not able to access the original teachings. You should just compare the 大圓滿最勝心中心引導略要 and its original by Kong-sprul (rDzogs chen yang ti nag po gser gyi ’bru gcig pa’i khrid yig mdor bsdus pa ’od gsal lam ’jug) to see the differences.

But I assume you only have mahayana scriptures not of chinese tripitaka,

I have most of the Taisho at home actually... not to mention quite a bunch of chinese "dzogchen" texts.

or of english translated chinese mahayana scriptures of non-definitive meaning, then I agree with you, but the poor english translation and non-definitive meaning is not the fault of the chinese language.

Some of the english translations I read actually do a great service to the chinese originals, mostly if sticking back to indian original expressions. But as far as Dzogchen is concerned, the chinese translations are often misleading.
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Re: Females who achieved rainbow body

Postby Malcolm » Sun Sep 02, 2012 6:07 pm

mutsuk wrote:No they are pretty much different, in terms of "waves of blessings" and capacity to liberate others.


Here rlabs means " nus pa dang, mthu stobs kyi tshad,...nus rlabs dang ldan pa,...phan rlabs chung ba,...'phrin las rlabs chen,...gom pa rlabs can,...las chod rlabs che ba" not "chu sogs 'gul skabs byung ba'i gnyer ma,...chu rlabs,...rba rlabs,...rlabs mthon por 'phyur ba,...rlabs ris med pa.."

Thus byin rlabs has the connocation of "conferring power...." etc., which is characteristic of its Sanskrit corollary: adhiṣṭhānam
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Re: Females who achieved rainbow body

Postby mutsuk » Sun Sep 02, 2012 6:20 pm

Malcolm wrote:
mutsuk wrote:No they are pretty much different, in terms of "waves of blessings" and capacity to liberate others.


Here rlabs means " nus pa dang, mthu stobs kyi tshad,...nus rlabs dang ldan pa,...phan rlabs chung ba,...'phrin las rlabs chen,...gom pa rlabs can,...las chod rlabs che ba" not "chu sogs 'gul skabs byung ba'i gnyer ma,...chu rlabs,...rba rlabs,...rlabs mthon por 'phyur ba,...rlabs ris med pa.."

Thus bying rlabs has the connocation of "conferring power...." etc., which is characteristic of its Sanskrit corollary: adhiṣṭhānam

I know, I 'm not translating byin-rlabs as wave at all, but referring to the degree of the power of the byin-rlabs.
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Re: Females who achieved rainbow body

Postby Malcolm » Sun Sep 02, 2012 6:22 pm

mutsuk wrote:
Malcolm wrote:
mutsuk wrote:No they are pretty much different, in terms of "waves of blessings" and capacity to liberate others.


Here rlabs means " nus pa dang, mthu stobs kyi tshad,...nus rlabs dang ldan pa,...phan rlabs chung ba,...'phrin las rlabs chen,...gom pa rlabs can,...las chod rlabs che ba" not "chu sogs 'gul skabs byung ba'i gnyer ma,...chu rlabs,...rba rlabs,...rlabs mthon por 'phyur ba,...rlabs ris med pa.."

Thus bying rlabs has the connocation of "conferring power...." etc., which is characteristic of its Sanskrit corollary: adhiṣṭhānam

I know, I 'm not translating byin-rlabs as wave at all, but referring to the degree of the power of the byin-rlabs.


Ok, I just see a lot of translators doing that based on a false etymology.
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Re: Females who achieved rainbow body

Postby mutsuk » Sun Sep 02, 2012 6:25 pm

Malcolm wrote:Ok, I just see a lot of translators doing that based on a false etymology.

You are right to insist on this indeed. I just heard that "wave (rlabs) of [spiritual] gifts (byin)" a couple of weeks ago during a teaching. It's a stupid mistake which is so recurring...
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Re: Females who achieved rainbow body

Postby username » Sun Sep 02, 2012 8:56 pm

AFAIK, could be wrong, there are 3 types of disappearing bodies. First is the atomic one where physical remains vanish. Then the second type which is sign of a even greater realized person or rainbow body as a result of thogal. Conceptual vehicles' fruits do not really compare to the fruits of Dzogchen's 4 visions/thogal & if they claim so it is false. Here the body starts to shrink but sometimes it stops shrinking & there are many reasons for this. Dudjom rinpoche's body shrank. It does not mean he was lesser realized than for example his Gelug disciple, a lama, who practiced his terma & got rainbow body in Tibet several years ago. Or Dudjom Lingpa's 13 disciples who achieved rainbow body. Sometimes it is samaya breaker students stopping rainbow body, sometimes they want to leave something to benefit beings or future purposes, or many other reasons.

If the shrinking body was not intended to stop by the person at a certain stage, then disturbing it can stop it disappearing too. Also there are two types of subcategories with rainbow bodies (of 2nd main type due to thogal): With intended remainder certain parts/organs (not a shrunken case: normal with remainder) & Without. With such remainder in parts means not just hair & nails or a shrunken whole body but certain organs can be intended to remain behind for purposes as Longchenpa did with his skull etc. Often in old Tibet disciples would disturb a shrinking body so it would not disappear completely & cremate it for ringsals or other sacred remainders. Third type is the great transfer body like Padma & Vima & if I am not wrong Mandarava which is extremely rare & is not dying at all but basically they change form. Yeshe Tsogyal & her other main consort (Atsara Sale) achieved rainbow body too as did many other women. The two quotes below are from 2 books by Tulku Urgyen Rinpoche, second one on a female practitioner. Many rainbow bodies were by non famous practitioners on retreat in the wild & not documented either, they just disappeared.

----------------------
Tulku Urgyen Rinoche, Blazing Splendor:

"There had been a prediction from the Lotus-Born master that both Karmey
Khenpo and Kongtrul would manifest the rainbow body at the time of death, a
sign of great realization. Perhaps it was due to their extensive efforts to benefit
others-they were always busy with their many disciples-that neither ended up
manifesting the rainbow body.

There are many factors involved in whether a practitioner attains the rainbow
body. Karmey Khenpo, for instance, did reach the level at which all mental phenomena
dissolve back into the basic nature of reality: the exhaustion of concepts
and phenomena. But even though at that exalted level he should have displayed
the rainbow body-the outward sign of this state of realization-he did not do
so.

Likewise, the terma revelations of Chokgyur Lingpa predicted that Kongtrul
would leave in a rainbow body when he passed away. But this was prevented
because his activities on behalf of sentient beings were too encompassing. One
major reason for this is that when there are a lot of disciples, then there are sure
to be some broken samayas by some of them; broken samayas have consequences
for the teacher and so can prevent the manifestation of a rainbow body. The
tantric teachings describe the rainbow body with remainder: an occurrence that
depends upon the purity of samaya of disciples and benefactors.

But there are exceptions: not too long ago, Nyagla Perna Dudul attained the
rainbow body when he died in the middle of his camp of five hundred disciples;
it seems none of them managed to prevent it. Still, most other teachers with the
same level of realization, and who have taught openly and widely to numerous
disciples, typically do not attain a rainbow body, despite the possibility that they
would have done so if they had had fewer students. That is probably why it is taught,
"If you want to attain the rainbow body, don't have too many disciples"
"

----------------------
Tulku Urgyen Rinoche, Rainbow Painting:

"Here is another story about rainbow body. During the days of Khyentse
and Kongtrül, there was a person who obtained rainbow body who became
quite famous. He was called Nyag-la Pema Düdül, and this event was
witnessed by many people. I personally know of two people who left this
life in rainbow form. One was a Vajrayana lay practitioner in the region of
Derge. The other person took rainbow body in the cow shed of one of my
gurus’ mother’s household. This event was witnessed by several people.

Jamgön Kongtrül the Second told me this story, so I definitely feel it is
true. Jamgön Kongtrül’s brother, a very tall and handsome man, was
present at the time. It happened like this. An elderly nun came through their
village on pilgrimage. When she saw the wealthy household she asked for a
place where she could make a short retreat. They offered her one of their
vacant cow sheds. She told them, “I want to use it for a week to make a strict
retreat. I want the door sealed up. Please pile stones against the door
because I don’t want any disturbance.” Since they were used to sponsoring
practitioners, they agreed and no one thought twice about it. They said,
“Sure, you can have it your way.” They didn’t know who was going to
look after her and bring her food; they thought she had already made
arrangements.

After three days, some strange phenomena began to occur. Scintillating,
swirling light-rays of different colors were seeping out of the holes
and cracks of the cow shed’s stone wall. Light was shining out from under
the roof; while outside the shed, spheres of light moved rapidly about. The
people of the house wondered, “What’s going on here? Who’s looking
after the old woman? Who’s bringing her food?” They asked their
servants. The servants thought someone else was giving her food, but
actually no one was. They decided she must have been cooking for herself,
but Jamgön Kongtrül’s brother asked, “Is there any place to cook inside?”
The servants said, “No, no. There is no fireplace or anything.” So they
wondered, “What is she eating? Does she have any water? What are these
lights all about?”

Finally, they decided to take a look. They removed the pile of stones
and pried open the door; they saw that the body of the nun had fallen to
pieces. Her hands were lying in one place and her feet were lying in
another; her limbs were no longer connected to the body, but lay scattered
in pieces. From the ends of the bones, swirls of rainbow light were coiling
out as the body continued to fall apart. The observers asked each other,
“What is this? It looks like she’s dead!” One person had the presence of
mind to say, “Let’s leave her alone. It looks like something unusual is
happening here. She asked for seven days of solitude so let’s do as she
asked.” And saying that, they sealed the shed up again.

When they returned after the seventh day and opened the shed, the
rainbow lights had vanished. Not a drop of blood, nor flesh, nor bones
could be found anywhere. Only the nails from the fingers and toes
remained, lying there very neatly, along with a hank of hair. This event
most definitely happened.

Even after the Chinese arrived, two or three people in Golok attained
rainbow body. Nyoshul Khen Rinpoche, who is very careful about such
stories, went to Tibet and through many different sources tracked down the
names and places of these people. He is keeping all the details very
precisely. Two of these people attained rainbow body. The third person
was being beaten by the Chinese when suddenly he started to levitate
upwards until they could not reach him. He went higher and higher until
he vanished. This is a type of celestial accomplishment. So, it’s definitely
true that even these days people do attain rainbow body, and that there are
still practitioners who attain accomplishment.

The terma tradition gives direct teachings on how to attain rainbow
body. In the Kagyü tradition, it is said that mind dissolves into dharmata,
while the body dissolves into atoms. Of the 84 mahasiddhas of India, not a
single one died leaving a corpse behind. Of Padmasambhava’s 25
disciples, only one person left a physical body behind at the time of death.
His name was Langchen Palgyi Senge and his body is still enshrined in a
stupa at Paro Taktsang.

In the present age, it seems as though people are not very diligent.
They do not apply themselves continuously to the teachings; they do not
practice day and night. This is the only difference between the present
situation and that of the past, when there were so many great practitioners.
The teachings themselves are still available through an unbroken lineage;
they have not disappeared.
"
Dzogchen masters I know say: 1)Buddhist religion essence is Dzogchen 2)Religions are positive by intent/fruit 3)Any method's OK unless: breaking Dzogchen vows, mixed as syncretic (Milanese Soup) 4)Don't join mandalas of opponents of Dalai Lama/Padmasambhava: False Deity inventors by encouraging victims 5)Don't debate Ati with others 6)Don't discuss Ati practices online 7) A master told his old disciple: no one's to discuss his teaching with some others on a former forum nor mention him. Publicity's OK, questions are asked from masters/set teachers in person/email/non-public forums~Best wishes
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Re: Females who achieved rainbow body

Postby Stewart » Sun Sep 02, 2012 9:26 pm

Thanks for posting those stories username. Very inspiring.
s.
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Re: Females who achieved rainbow body

Postby Jyoti » Mon Sep 03, 2012 4:29 am

Yudron wrote:My personal observation is that reading a bunch about Dzogchen when one has little foundation in practice, and little direct personal guidance from a master, creates more demons than Buddhas.


Yes, but this is for beginners in general. For those who properly develop the foundation of mahayana, and understand the two emptinesses, are equipped to study on their own.

There are many Kunga Rinpoches, which one is he? Can you give a link to a bio in English? I've never known a Kunga who wasn't Sakya.


There are a lot of biographies about him in chinese, none available in english, except in a short description from the book:

rDzogs chen in China
Gangs dkar rin po che, Karma bshad sprul chos kyi seng ge, the fifth incarnation of the
sprul sku from ’Bo Gangs dkar monastery [Fig. 4] was a famous Tibetan master who often came
to China for transmitting Tibetan teachings. According to the biography written by his disciple
Mi nyag mgon po (’Bo Gangs dkar sprul sku’i rnam thar dad pa’i pad dkar , Beijing Mi rigs dpe skrun
khang, 1997), Gangs dkar rin po che came to China three times. The first time, from 1936 to
1939, he visited many places, and it seems that he passed through Nanchang before returning to
his monastery in 1939. The second time was in 1946-49, and the third time in 1953-55. More on
this master in Carmen Meinert, “Gangs dkar rin po che between Tibet and China,” in Buddhism
Between Tibet and China, ed. Matthew T. Kapstein (Boston Wisdom Publications 2008). The a
while he left Nanchang in order to visit his monastery on Mount Gangs dkar in the region of Mi
nyag (today’s Liuba 六巴 district of Xikang 西康 [Tib. Khams]; see contemporary Tibetan master,
Namkhai Norbu (b. 1938) met him when he was invited to China in 1954. He heard from Gangs
dkar rin po che many explanations on the sixfold yogas of Nåropa, Mahåmudrå, the dKon mchog
spyi ’dus, as well as Tibetan medicine; see Namkhai Norbu, The Cycle of Day and Night, trans. & ed.
John M. Reynolds (New York: Station Hill Press, 1987): 95-100, here 98. It is worthy of attention
that Namkhai Norbu gives for Gangs dkar rin po che the dates 1903-1956. On the works transmitted
by Gangs dkar rin po che in China, see Appendix 2. For a biography on Gangs dkar rin po che see
also the contribution by Chen Bing on p. 400, and Chen Jifu 陳濟博, et al. Fujiao guangjue chanshi
Xikang Gongka hutuketu benzhuan 輔教廣覺禪師西康貢噶呼圖克圖本傳 (extracts of which are
available at http://fo.usard.com/Gongge.html and http://www.nuona.com/nuona/Article_Show.asp?
ArticleID=187).
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Re: Females who achieved rainbow body

Postby Sherlock » Mon Sep 03, 2012 4:42 am

Yeah I suspected it was Kangkar Rinpoche, one of ChNN's main teachers, b7t you kept saying Kunga. :rolling:
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Re: Females who achieved rainbow body

Postby SSJ3Gogeta » Mon Sep 03, 2012 4:43 am

Sherlock wrote:Yeah I suspected it was Kangkar Rinpoche, one of ChNN's main teachers, b7t you kept saying Kunga. :rolling:


She doesn't even understand the difference between Mahayana and Madhyamaka.


Jyoti wrote:indicate the maha parinirvana sutra is included as one the main sutras relied by the Madhyamaka tradition.



SSJ3Gogeta wrote:Are you confusing the word "Madhyamaka" with the word "Mahayana"?

That would explain a lot.



Jyoti wrote:No confusion here with the words.
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