Expectations and progress

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Re: Expectations and progress

Postby futerko » Sat Sep 01, 2012 9:54 pm

oushi wrote:
futerko wrote:"Without guilt, there are no expectations, and no suffering." - and who has facilitated this change thereby taking responsibility for their own mental and emotional state? Not only is this circular, adding nothing to my original reply but confusion, but also as Andrew wrote, its looks like an attempt to be smart rather than helpful.

I have absolutely no idea what you mean by that. Could you emend?


- your claim was that by realising one was not responsible for one's thoughts, this thereby removed guilt, expectations, and suffering, but who is the one realising this?

oushi wrote:
futerko wrote:The OP asked about the right direction to which your answer was, "The right direction is no particular direction, that is why it encompass all directions." - which may well be useful to someone locked on to seeking enlightenment as a goal, but in the context of someone new to Buddhism asking about some way to orient their meditation it comes across as unhelpful and an attempt to just look "smart"

That is your view, mine is different. Taking advantage of the "beginner mind", a solid basis can be developed, making all kinds of spiritual practice easy, not "difficult and often painful". Hitting the great wall of doubt is just one way of practicing. I present something different, something that people may not be aware of. Do you see it as harmful? If it's not valid, refute it, otherwise don't play good uncle that knows it's unhelpful. Aren't you trying to be "smarter" then me, just for the sake of being smarter? How do you know it's unhelpful? I doubt that you understand it at all, but it doesn't stop you from judging it as unhelpful.


- there seems to be some transference occurring here. No one else said anything about it being difficult, painful, or harmful. I have no reason to refute someone who agrees with me, whether they realise it or not.

oushi wrote:
futerko wrote:Longchenpa felt the need to write 250 pages but you condense it into just a few lines so you risk serious misinterpretation by taking those quotations out of context.

What are you trying to say, that I should post entire 250 pages every time I want to refer to his teachings? Those 250 pages cover all sort of different spheres and phases which are not needed here. Can you find, in those 250 pages, confirmation of the approach you suggested on the first page of this topic?


No, and that's because I am not teaching Dzogchen here, I am replying to the OP in terms that might make sense to them. If you think Longchenpa is appropriate reading in this case then say so.

oushi wrote:
futerko wrote:Technically you may be right on some points, but given the context it would seem inappropriate to take such an approach

Once again, how do you know that? Can you predict the consequences, or you are just trying to look "smart"?


I made no claim to know, but I have seen the consequences of your posts on this and other sites so no prediction is necessary - To paraphrase Chandrakirti, if the relative truth is degenerate, then you do not have a complete path.

oushi wrote:
futerko wrote:PS. In astronomy a black body is one which does not reflect light but just radiates, so yes, the sun is black.

I'm not good in astronomy, so tell me, what absorption has to do with emission?


Nothing, they are just conventional categories, no different to the categories in your original question.
we cannot get rid of God because we still believe in grammar - Nietzsche
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Re: Expectations and progress

Postby oushi » Sun Sep 02, 2012 8:34 am

futerko wrote: your claim was that by realising one was not responsible for one's thoughts, this thereby removed guilt, expectations, and suffering, but who is the one realising this?

The same one. Having no control, has nothing to do with it. Realization is not a free act of will. If it was, half of the planet would be awakened.
futerko wrote:No one else said anything about it being difficult, painful, or harmful

Matt J wrote:It is easy to practice such a "book dharma"--- but unfortunately, practice is difficult and often painful.

Dilgo Khyentse Rinpoche wrote:When engaging in meditation practice, we should feel it to be as natural as eating, breathing and
defecating.

I understand that defecating can be difficult and painful sometimes, but lets not make a rule out of it :tongue: . I would say, take this painful practice and stick it...
futerko wrote:No, and that's because I am not teaching Dzogchen here, I am replying to the OP in terms that might make sense to them. If you think Longchenpa is appropriate reading in this case then say so.

Neither do I, although I quoted Longchenpa. I replied by showing direct teaching, which happens to be opposite to your reply. It is found all over the Buddhist world, and not only. Almost everyone posting in this topic tries to refute it, because it goes against the way they practice. Should I go with the mob, or be honest, and post what I think? And why do you so fiercely want to stop me from doing that?
futerko wrote:I made no claim to know, but I have seen the consequences of your posts on this and other sites so no prediction is necessary

What are the consequences? How do you tell they are negative? Direct teaching is never welcome, and never been. Bodhidharma was insulted, Longchenpa had to keep his teaching secret, and Jesus was crucified for preaching it. The teaching is simple, but people are f*****. Especially those that invested their lives for doing something that goes against it. They say "I practice", "I made vows", "I keep precepts", "I must be right", not being aware that all those, if not applied correctly, create hellish karma. What worse, they try to enforce it on others, and you read about frustrated people that are not able to meditate regularly, or others that feels guilty for killing bacterias in the fridge.
futerko wrote:Nothing, they are just conventional categories, no different to the categories in your original question.

Not really. Sun is not a black body, as black bodies do not exist in reality. It's just a model, that is nowhere to be found (Not that I knew, I read it on wiki).
If you still insist that sun is black, you can as well try to prove it by one of Dead Can Dance songs, that has "Black Sun" as a title.;)
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Re: Expectations and progress

Postby catmoon » Sun Sep 02, 2012 9:46 am

The topic is expectations and progress. Speaking of which, my expectation is that if we don't stay on topic, the thread will not progress.

Not that the conversation isn't interesting, but other topics deserve new threads.
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Re: Expectations and progress

Postby futerko » Sun Sep 02, 2012 9:57 am

catmoon wrote:The topic is expectations and progress. Speaking of which, my expectation is that if we don't stay on topic, the thread will not progress.

Not that the conversation isn't interesting, but other topics deserve new threads.


Yes, I added a new thread here http://www.dharmawheel.net/viewtopic.php?f=77&t=9953
we cannot get rid of God because we still believe in grammar - Nietzsche
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