Evicting an Asura

Alleviating worldly suffering along the way.

Re: Evicting an Asura

Postby Son » Wed Aug 29, 2012 4:09 am

Kaji wrote:Things to note if you want to use the Surangama Mantra:

1. This mantra is excellent for dealing with mara or demons (the most powerful of which is your inner mara). I do not know if this asura is a mara, so I am not sure if the mantra is useful in dealing with him. In the possibility that he is a karmic debtor of one or more in your group of people, as I have previously mentioned, this mantra may not be most suitable in keeping the asura from claiming his debt.

2. If this mantra does work against him, it would drive him away. It does not mean he will not come back. Worse still, you might have brought the level of conflict to a higher level. I still think the compassionate and making-peace method is the right way to go.

It always has been, still is, and shall continue to be... Let me be reassuring on this.

3. Use of the Surangama Mantra requires years of practice and dedication to be truly effective. I do not know if it is the best solution right now.

I know how to make it effective. If for some reason it isn't, I will let it be known.

4. Are you a vegetarian that does not eat eggs nor take alcohol (or other intoxicating substances)?

I used to be. Now I am a pescatarian and I drink sometimes. I don't think subtle purity will be that crucial here. This is an earthly being, a lower asura.

5. It is a very long mantra, so when chanting it it is easy to lose focus when chanting it, easy to mispronounce or misread some words, easy to feel tired.

I will only chant the five hearts mantra of it; chedana akala mrtyu prasamana karim. I'm also employing other mantras of course, including Lord Avalokiteshvara Bodhisattva's, and Bhaisajyaguru.
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Re: Evicting an Asura

Postby Kaji » Wed Aug 29, 2012 5:22 am

Son wrote:
4. Are you a vegetarian that does not eat eggs nor take alcohol (or other intoxicating substances)?

I used to be. Now I am a pescatarian and I drink sometimes. I don't think subtle purity will be that crucial here. This is an earthly being, a lower asura.

I am referring to the purity required in terms of using this particular mantra, not dealing with asura in general. I understand the use of the Surangama Mantra is only really effective if you follow precepts and is a vegetarian that does not eat eggs (even better, vegan) and take intoxicating substances.

I know there are Chinese monks and nuns who have become really good with this mantra. I have not heard a lot of stories about lay Buddhists using it for great effects.
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Re: Evicting an Asura

Postby Son » Wed Aug 29, 2012 9:02 am

Kaji wrote:
Son wrote:
4. Are you a vegetarian that does not eat eggs nor take alcohol (or other intoxicating substances)?

I used to be. Now I am a pescatarian and I drink sometimes. I don't think subtle purity will be that crucial here. This is an earthly being, a lower asura.

I am referring to the purity required in terms of using this particular mantra, not dealing with asura in general. I understand the use of the Surangama Mantra is only really effective if you follow precepts and is a vegetarian that does not eat eggs (even better, vegan) and take intoxicating substances.

I know there are Chinese monks and nuns who have become really good with this mantra. I have not heard a lot of stories about lay Buddhists using it for great effects.


Well, hopefully you will hear one such story soon.
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Re: Evicting an Asura

Postby Kaji » Wed Aug 29, 2012 9:23 am

Do you, or anyone in your group, have pūrvanivāsānusmṛti (the supernatural power to see into the past and previous lives of yourself and others)? If so, for those persons most affected by this asura you may want to see into their past lives to see their interaction with him (in his present or past lives). Connections between an asura and humans don't just appear out of nowhere all of a sudden.
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Re: Evicting an Asura

Postby Son » Wed Aug 29, 2012 2:46 pm

Kaji wrote:Do you, or anyone in your group, have pūrvanivāsānusmṛti (the supernatural power to see into the past and previous lives of yourself and others)? If so, for those persons most affected by this asura you may want to see into their past lives to see their interaction with him (in his present or past lives). Connections between an asura and humans don't just appear out of nowhere all of a sudden.


No, I don't have the supernormal power to see into past lives, but I have seen two past lives of mine, and one of another person's before. I'm not sure how I could use this or direct it, however.
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Re: Evicting an Asura

Postby zangskar » Wed Aug 29, 2012 3:05 pm

How did you establish that this is definitely an entity and more specifically an asura?
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Re: Evicting an Asura

Postby Andrew108 » Wed Aug 29, 2012 4:45 pm

You know Son that it's possible these Asura exist for you but not for others. If other people don't see them, then really they are not a problem. If they are a problem for you then you will have to learn how to ignore them. Use your considerable meditative ability to remain indifferent. If other people see them then remain indifferent to that person too. In this case big indifference is the best strategy.
The Blessed One said:

"What is the All? Simply the eye & forms, ear & sounds, nose & aromas, tongue & flavors, body & tactile sensations, intellect & ideas. This, monks, is called the All. Anyone who would say, 'Repudiating this All, I will describe another,' if questioned on what exactly might be the grounds for his statement, would be unable to explain, and furthermore, would be put to grief. Why? Because it lies beyond range." Sabba Sutta.
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Re: Evicting an Asura

Postby Son » Wed Aug 29, 2012 7:02 pm

Andrew108 wrote:You know Son that it's possible these Asura exist for you but not for others. If other people don't see them, then really they are not a problem. If they are a problem for you then you will have to learn how to ignore them. Use your considerable meditative ability to remain indifferent. If other people see them then remain indifferent to that person too. In this case big indifference is the best strategy.


Yes this is the case with hallucinations. However, substantial problems do not vanish because you ignore them. Asuras don't vanish either. If he leaves, it will be because he thought, "I want to leave," and subsequently he physically departed. The owner of the house was able to see him very vaguely, so not really seeing him but aware of him nonetheless. Regardless, his presence and influence in the household and residents is very real, and not existing hallucinogenically. The advice given is much better than, "ignore."

zangskar wrote:How did you establish that this is definitely an entity and more specifically an asura?
Best wishes
Lars


I felt his presence like most people can. Then, I came under his influence one night, as some people may. Then, I heard him as few people can. Finally, I saw him and communicated with him, as very few people have the ability to. Based on clear perception of feeling, and focused reasoning, one discerns what an object it is. An apple, a flower, a fish, a person, a deva.
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Re: Evicting an Asura

Postby y1010 » Wed Aug 29, 2012 7:32 pm

Son wrote:
y1010 wrote:If you are able to not believe it really exist, it will go away. Your belief creates.


My belief does not create you, or other people. My belief does not create animals, or devas. I certainly did not create this asura's life with my belief. If I stop believing in other people, they will not vanish.

The Buddha did not teach that belief creates other beings. He taught that birth, which is conditioned by becoming, which is conditioned by clinging, is created by our own craving.



I did not say that, no wonder that an asura wants you. You misunderstand me for a reason that the asura will hopefully tell you.
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Re: Evicting an Asura

Postby Son » Wed Aug 29, 2012 8:08 pm

y1010 wrote:
Son wrote:
y1010 wrote:If you are able to not believe it really exist, it will go away. Your belief creates.


My belief does not create you, or other people. My belief does not create animals, or devas. I certainly did not create this asura's life with my belief. If I stop believing in other people, they will not vanish.

The Buddha did not teach that belief creates other beings. He taught that birth, which is conditioned by becoming, which is conditioned by clinging, is created by our own craving.



I did not say that, no wonder that an asura wants you. You misunderstand me for a reason that the asura will hopefully tell you.


I simply took you literally. I don't see how your advice is helpful. And as I have said, the asura does not want me, he cannot even stand my speech because of my dharma practice. It is the resident of the household he is attached to, and he feeds off them both, they are half-brother and sister.
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Re: Evicting an Asura

Postby y1010 » Wed Aug 29, 2012 8:20 pm

What we assume to be real is the way we look at the world.
So If you know the Heart Sutra, you know that we like to divide and the reality is not divided.

Why do you tell, they are half bro and sis?
Is it important?
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Re: Evicting an Asura

Postby zangskar » Wed Aug 29, 2012 11:25 pm

Son wrote:
zangskar wrote:How did you establish that this is definitely an entity and more specifically an asura?
Best wishes
Lars


I felt his presence like most people can. Then, I came under his influence one night, as some people may. Then, I heard him as few people can. Finally, I saw him and communicated with him, as very few people have the ability to. Based on clear perception of feeling, and focused reasoning, one discerns what an object it is. An apple, a flower, a fish, a person, a deva.

You ask a very basic ("Beginner") question about how to deal with an asura, yet at the same time you seem to have the confidence of a professional that you know the exact nature of what is going on. I obviously don't know anything much about you or the situation but it seems a bit paradoxical that you can be so sure yet lacking basic knowledge at the same time. Based on what you wrote here and lacking any other knowledge about your situation, I think you should find someone with more experience in this field who can give a second opinion before going too much in to this, especially considering that you mention your friend is vulnerable. If that means psychologically unstable then starting to talk about malicious entities might not be the best idea if it's not absolutely necessary and also when you don't know how to deal with them.

Also consider that many problems are not best resolved by aiming for their most immediate manifestation, but by fixing all sorts of underlying causes and conditions. This probably entails approaching the problem from many different angles at the same time, and also on recognising that while prayers and ritual may support good actions, they usually do little to correct wrong actions.

Anyway, whatever you choose to do, I wish you and your friends a swift solution to the problems!
Best wishes
Lars
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Re: Evicting an Asura

Postby Son » Thu Aug 30, 2012 12:14 am

zangskar wrote:
Son wrote:
zangskar wrote:How did you establish that this is definitely an entity and more specifically an asura?
Best wishes
Lars


I felt his presence like most people can. Then, I came under his influence one night, as some people may. Then, I heard him as few people can. Finally, I saw him and communicated with him, as very few people have the ability to. Based on clear perception of feeling, and focused reasoning, one discerns what an object it is. An apple, a flower, a fish, a person, a deva.

You ask a very basic ("Beginner") question about how to deal with an asura, yet at the same time you seem to have the confidence of a professional that you know the exact nature of what is going on. I obviously don't know anything much about you or the situation but it seems a bit paradoxical that you can be so sure yet lacking basic knowledge at the same time. Based on what you wrote here and lacking any other knowledge about your situation,


whoa. Wait, what "basic knowledge" am I lacking that pertains to this situation...? What is the "other knowledge about my situation" that I do not have?

I think you should find someone with more experience in this field who can give a second opinion before going too much in to this, especially considering that you mention your friend is vulnerable.

Firstly, very few people at all can perceive or deal with asuras. Secondly, most of those people are nowhere near myself geographically--and "mysteriously" those who may or may not be on this forum don't seem to have taken notice of my thread. What's more, second opinions is half the purpose of me posting this topic.

If that means psychologically unstable then starting to talk about malicious entities might not be the best idea if it's not absolutely necessary and also when you don't know how to deal with them.

Most people who don't practice mental cultivation are psychologically unstable in some ways. I'm familiar with her and his mental situation, and addressing the presence of the asura was definitely a good call in regards to and respect toward this subject. I have the sensibility and perception to deal with them, due to practice and past divine affinity. I have simply never had to nor have I heard of someone "baptizing" or evicting an asura from a household. I have been very open and inquiring in this thread, but that's because I came here for input, experience, and reference--not because I'm ignorant of the situation essentially.

Also consider that many problems are not best resolved by aiming for their most immediate manifestation,

Aren't I Buddhist? Aren't we both? That is of course the Buddhist approach, and rest assured I have been approaching the situation that way.

... but by fixing all sorts of underlying causes and conditions. This probably entails approaching the problem from many different angles at the same time, and also on recognising that while prayers and ritual may support good actions, they usually do little to correct wrong actions.

The reason I have not addressed this in topic, is because it's already established in what I'm doing. The REASON I seem to have the "confidence of a professional" is because all these factors are already given, and the inquiring I've made is specific and subtle, not a "beginner's question." Working with them in this way is slow and cannot be forced, and since it is 80% of the solution, naturally I am dealing with it and don't need to ask questions in that regard (ergo, beginner questions).

Anyway, whatever you choose to do, I wish you and your friends a swift solution to the problems!
Best wishes
Lars


Thanks.
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Re: Evicting an Asura

Postby Kaji » Thu Aug 30, 2012 8:34 am

Ah, the asura is still bothering people? Perhaps you could ask the affected people to try one of these simple solutions.

Recite the name of Avalokitesvara Bodhisattva many times. The Sanskrit sentence is pronounced as "Nama ārya-avalokiteśvarāya bodhisattvāya". Deducing from the text from Universal Gate, this practice can make you invisible to non-human beings trying to harm you.

Chant the mantra "Oṃ maṇi padme hūṃ" many times. This can also protect you from harm by most non-human beings.

Please remember that the mindset for both methods should be to request protection from harm, not to remove or drive away the asura.

And, Son, given your affinity and association with deva, have not any deva advised you on how to deal with or live with the asura?
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Re: Evicting an Asura

Postby Son » Thu Aug 30, 2012 8:52 am

Kaji wrote:Ah, the asura is still bothering people? Perhaps you could ask the affected people to try one of these simple solutions.

Recite the name of Avalokitesvara Bodhisattva many times. The Sanskrit sentence is pronounced as "Nama ārya-avalokiteśvarāya bodhisattvāya". Deducing from the text from Universal Gate, this practice can make you invisible to non-human beings trying to harm you.

Chant the mantra "Oṃ maṇi padme hūṃ" many times. This can also protect you from harm by most non-human beings.

Please remember that the mindset for both methods should be to request protection from harm, not to remove or drive away the asura.

And, Son, given your affinity and association with deva, have not any deva advised you on how to deal with or live with the asura?


I have already planned to use said mantra. Unfortunately, I have been away from the neighborhood for a week, and hurricane Isaac did cause some minor weather congestion around here in Florida. However, as soon as we do the ritual and prayer, I'll provide the details. I do intend to confer with some devas prior, yes. Right now I am in a place where I have not seen any devas, although it is lovely rural country. I've been having severe sleep issues.
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Re: Evicting an Asura

Postby Kaji » Thu Aug 30, 2012 9:03 am

Son wrote:I have already planned to use said mantra. Unfortunately, I have been away from the neighborhood for a week, and hurricane Isaac did cause some minor weather congestion around here in Florida. However, as soon as we do the ritual and prayer, I'll provide the details. I do intend to confer with some devas prior, yes. Right now I am in a place where I have not seen any devas, although it is lovely rural country. I've been having severe sleep issues.

The above two methods can also help with sleep issues, I think.

I have heard that deva are more active in the human realm at around 3am to 5am, before dawn. Have you observed that in your experience?
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Re: Evicting an Asura

Postby Son » Thu Aug 30, 2012 9:11 am

Kaji wrote:
Son wrote:I have already planned to use said mantra. Unfortunately, I have been away from the neighborhood for a week, and hurricane Isaac did cause some minor weather congestion around here in Florida. However, as soon as we do the ritual and prayer, I'll provide the details. I do intend to confer with some devas prior, yes. Right now I am in a place where I have not seen any devas, although it is lovely rural country. I've been having severe sleep issues.

The above two methods can also help with sleep issues, I think.

I have heard that deva are more active in the human realm at around 3am to 5am, before dawn. Have you observed that in your experience?


I CERTAINLY HAVE!!! :thinking:

:idea: It is also true of asuras, and pretas. In fact, I just saw the preta that stays here a moment ago. And it is 3:10 AM in this moment. Ah, synchronicity. :roll:
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Re: Evicting an Asura

Postby Kaji » Thu Aug 30, 2012 9:28 am

Feel free to extend my invitation to the preta to have a meal when I do preta-dana at my home tonight at around 11pm to midnight, which would be approx 6 to 8 hours from now. Or same time tomorrow.

I don't know if deva and asura can enjoy my food offering. If they can, please extend my invitation to them as well.
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Re: Evicting an Asura

Postby Son » Thu Aug 30, 2012 10:15 am

Kaji wrote:Feel free to extend my invitation to the preta to have a meal when I do preta-dana at my home tonight at around 11pm to midnight, which would be approx 6 to 8 hours from now. Or same time tomorrow.

I don't know if deva and asura can enjoy my food offering. If they can, please extend my invitation to them as well.


How would the preta reach your home to benefit from the food offering? I mean, of course he could benefit from prayer or from merit-transference, or transmission, but how can he reach the food? Pretas are very pitiful travelers. On the other hand, some asuras and devas can travel long distances, leap through space, fly, and pilot divine vehicles. However such devas wouldn't need to partake in your food offering.
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Re: Evicting an Asura

Postby Kaji » Thu Aug 30, 2012 11:11 am

Son wrote:
Kaji wrote:Feel free to extend my invitation to the preta to have a meal when I do preta-dana at my home tonight at around 11pm to midnight, which would be approx 6 to 8 hours from now. Or same time tomorrow.

I don't know if deva and asura can enjoy my food offering. If they can, please extend my invitation to them as well.


How would the preta reach your home to benefit from the food offering? I mean, of course he could benefit from prayer or from merit-transference, or transmission, but how can he reach the food? Pretas are very pitiful travelers. On the other hand, some asuras and devas can travel long distances, leap through space, fly, and pilot divine vehicles. However such devas wouldn't need to partake in your food offering.

Not sure if the mantra I use can reach out to preta in other places or allow them to go to me... I do not have deva-eye so I cannot tell...
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