Deluded Mind

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Deluded Mind

Postby Yogicfire » Tue Jul 13, 2010 4:37 pm

I am interested in hearing people's views on the deluded mind, and the states moving on from that. How exactly would you phrase it? OK, we act with awareness from time to time, and nurture the good seeds of mindfulness in order to tap into our inherent wisdom and compassion, but from a more philosophical or analytical point of view - what is actually happening?

I have read about bhumis, stream entry, and so on, but it is all a little vague. Is it possible to really clarify? Have you come across a good explanation on the actual transformation of the mind, and the qualities that develop in the process? Maybe it is something that we take for granted, and just accept without investigating what the words actually mean? Do the words mean anything?

I guess a personal recollection of meditative practice might be something that I might be interested in reading.
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Re: Deluded Mind

Postby muni » Tue Jul 13, 2010 5:50 pm

Phrase it so: Losing nature into a dual state of fictitious being.
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Re: Deluded Mind

Postby White Lotus » Thu Jul 15, 2010 7:50 pm

:namaste: questions asked with such humility can only benefit the one who asks them.

when we penetrate emptiness, having seen our own nature, the buddha nature, once the dharma eye is open and we directly perceive emptiness of ourself and all things... then we speak of deluded and non-dual reality.

once emptiness is blown away we see mind and mind alone. there is no longer any talk of dualisms nor non dualities. everything is just as it is, as it was when we first started. this mind is no different from the mind of a beginner.

i say fundamentally that there is no deluded mind, nor ever was. it is just so. the ordinary mind is the site of enlightenment. negativites, impure emotions and thoughts are all pure Mind, everything is this Budda/true nature. your own nature.

the practice of buddhism has been likened to polishing a brick, or to trying to wipe dust from a spotless mirror on which there is basically no dust. A master has said that from the moment a person decides to seek enlightenment, from that very instant he has it within his grasp to attain supreme enlightenment... i would go further and say that all beings are enlightened, they just dont realize this.

why do i say that? because all beings have the Mind of the Buddha, in the mind of the buddha enlightenment is no different from delusion, or it is different. it is one thing or two separate things either way it is still just Mind.

everyone is driving a Ferrari, they just dont realize it! when they realize this then they are Buddhas, actually i would say they are all buddhas even if they dont realize it. If there is a delusion it must be the delusion that people are not buddhas.

if you attain to and see your own nature and have broken through emptiness to Mind, you will see that this is ordinary mind, and that everyone has it... except someone who is within the mists of emptiness.

hope this is helpful, best wishes, White Lotus.

a rough rock, becoming polished...
is still a rock. rough, smooth...
whats the difference?
a rock is still a rock.
in any matters of importance. dont rely on me. i may not know what i am talking about. take what i say as mere speculation. i am not ordained. nor do i have a formal training. i do believe though that if i am wrong on any point. there are those on this site who i hope will quickly point out my mistakes.
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Re: Deluded Mind

Postby Yogicfire » Sat Jul 17, 2010 6:13 am

Nice, White Lotus. I am also interested in your own take on your own mind, or your own state right now. How would you describe it? What kind of language would you use specifically.

I know some of the theory and ideas about Buddha-nature, and the intrinsic nature of pure mind, but I am thinking about how people would actually describe their personal transformation, their development, how the seeds of mindfulness are growing or not... With as little reference to Buddhist theory if possible, and more of a focus on direct experience.
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Re: Deluded Mind

Postby White Lotus » Sat Jul 17, 2010 4:59 pm

:namaste: Noble YogicFire
i appreciate your respect, but it is not needful, as you ask questions, so do i!

reference to buddhist theory is usually fairly inaccessible and therefore unhlepful... so, i will try to keep this simple. if i cant keep it simple it is no use to anyone.

your own take on your own mind, or your own state right now. How would you describe it? What kind of language would you use specifically.


my mind is your mind, your mind is my mind. there is no difference. i would describe it as the mind tapping at the computer right now... normal mind. there are those who have realized a supercharged awareness, but it is possible to have supersonic attainment and purity of mind without any kind of unusual experience. some people vow to experience all things as normal including all states of consciousness, in order to develop their mind more effectively. an ancient has said that "normal mind is the site of enlightenment". you are actually already endowed with an astonishingly beautiful and complex mind though you may not be aware of this. states of experience are transitory (impermanent), enlightenment episodes come and go... there is nothing to hang onto except the perception of all things being mind, which is always there. you will not see this until you see your own nature and know yourself so.

my friend Master Best has a supersonic awareness, to him enlightenment episodes have been like a gunshot, a grenade or an atomic explosion. to me enlightenment episodes have been like the touch of the wind or a radiant sunset... all passing. the only thing that does not pass is the Mind seal... the perception that all things are Mind. me, the computer, air, emptiness, your voice... all things are perceived as mind. When i was talking to Master Best today my perception saw no difference between him and me. we are one, not only in philosophical understanding (which is remakable), but also one fabric which is Mind.

specific language i would use is "persevere, enlightenment is inevitable".
"you are already enlightened, who told you that you arnt."
"nothing remarkable." Mind, the true 'eye' of the dharma, that sees the dharma. that sees that all things are suchness, thussness, just as they are, whether aware of it or not. tatha-g'atta'. the 'self' that is pure Mind. that all things are this self, that this self is all things.

how people would actually describe their personal transformation, their development, how the seeds of mindfulness are growing or not...


the main thing, once one is in the pure land, recognizing that the pure land is dependent on what is within onself, is that things get much easier... there are still problems and difficulties and there is still residual karma to be worked out... but lying on my bed at night, and other occasions. such peace, but still thoroughly normal, and yet thoroughly special. occasionally a person might say to one... "you have found inner peace". you say "but still i know difficulties from time to time and dont always feel peaceful."

my mindfulness unlike Master Best who sees and hears everything, is thoroughly normal. there are different expressions of the personal experience, what one experiences may be different from another. differences are refreshing and challenging.

i would say that the transformation is inevitable for anyone practicing the dharma. but that the most important teacher of dharma is life itself. it will break you to make you. all pain, dissilusion, sadness, lions, tigers, bears and mosquitos, suffering acts as the motor that drives enlightenment. no mud... no lotus. if there is a purpose to suffering or a reason for it then to me this is it... the driver of inner transformation. if we were not despirate and so looking for a way to end all suffering there would be no inner transformation, nor would there be any Buddhas.

ps. i still do not say that i am enlightened, how could that be so when there is no one to be enlightened, there is only this Mind... this mind knows no enlightenment. it just is. the most profound experience is just normal life, just as it is. still... seek enlightenment, and i will too. there being no one for it to attach to. i am no longer deluded to the nature of pure Mind, but perhaps still suffer delusion in regard to other things. i fundamentally know the fundamental truth, therefore fundamentally i am no longer deluded. Mind. Master Best teaching of equilibrium is that where there is enlightnement there will also be delusion. the delusion however is no longer fundamental!

hope this is helpful,

with love, from White Lotus.

freshly spoken,
a word in spring.
the butterflies testify to it. (love letters blown on the wind)
enlightenment flutters.
in any matters of importance. dont rely on me. i may not know what i am talking about. take what i say as mere speculation. i am not ordained. nor do i have a formal training. i do believe though that if i am wrong on any point. there are those on this site who i hope will quickly point out my mistakes.
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