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PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 2:22 am 
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Can one eliminate all delusion regarding the basis with dream yoga?


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 2:25 am 
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This is completely hypothetical except in the case of coma patients. To even get into dreams of clarity regularly you need some practice in your waking life.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 2:29 am 
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Sherlock wrote:
This is completely hypothetical except in the case of coma patients.


ChNN is not in a coma, and practices dream yoga all the time.

I'm just not sure if dream yoga can be used to eliminate all delusion regarding the basis.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 2:33 am 
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Location: Magga ~ Path to Liberation.
I would presume that delusion has do to with the psychosomatic function in the brain.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 2:35 am 
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Wesley1982 wrote:
I would presume that delusion has do with the psychosomatic function in the brain.



No it comes from neutral awareness (sh shes pa lung ma bstan) not recognizing itself.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 2:37 am 
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SSJ3Gogeta wrote:
No it comes from neutral awareness (sh shes pa lung ma bstan) not recognizing itself.


Oh, then I must be referring to something else. Cognition or Cognitive function?..not sure but "delusion" does and can happen.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 2:46 am 
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Definitely can.

However, there is always a question of what do you mean by the elimination of all delusions?

Do you mean that when someone hits you, your anger will no longer appear?

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 2:47 am 
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Whats so hard to understand about the basis (gzhi)?

If you guys don't understand dzogchen upadesha.......


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 2:54 am 
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SSJ3Gogeta wrote:
Can one eliminate all delusion regarding the basis with dream yoga?


Probably, but it would only work if one has already has stable recognition during the waking state.
It is simply impractical to practice Dream Yoga exclusively without already establishing significant experience while awake.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 2:56 am 
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I think the opportunity always exits for liberation, regardless if we are in the dream state, waking state or in the bardo. Isn't this what makes Dzogchen so direct? But, no I don't really understand Dzogchen, so...


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 2:57 am 
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Josef wrote:
SSJ3Gogeta wrote:
Can one eliminate all delusion regarding the basis with dream yoga?


Probably, but it would only work if one has already has stable recognition during the waking state.
It is simply impractical to practice Dream Yoga exclusively without already establishing significant experience while awake.



For discussion's sake, lets assume integrated trekcho while awake.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 3:05 am 
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SSJ3Gogeta wrote:
Sherlock wrote:
This is completely hypothetical except in the case of coma patients.


ChNN is not in a coma, and practices dream yoga all the time.

I'm just not sure if dream yoga can be used to eliminate all delusion regarding the basis.


You changed the title of this thread when I was typing my reply. You were asking if it were possible to complete the whole path through dream yoga alone.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 3:07 am 
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Sherlock wrote:
You changed the title of this thread when I was typing my reply. You were asking if it were possible to complete the whole path through dream yoga alone.


:jawdrop:

I'm actually still asking the same exact thing.

I guess I have to stop using Dzogchen language on this forum.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 3:12 am 
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Ok to dumb things down for the masses:

Can dream yoga lead to rainbow body?


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 3:23 am 
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SSJ3Gogeta wrote:
Josef wrote:
SSJ3Gogeta wrote:
Can one eliminate all delusion regarding the basis with dream yoga?


Probably, but it would only work if one has already has stable recognition during the waking state.
It is simply impractical to practice Dream Yoga exclusively without already establishing significant experience while awake.



For discussion's sake, lets assume integrated trekcho while awake.


It would be redundant but sure.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 3:25 am 
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SSJ3Gogeta wrote:
Ok to dumb things down for the masses:

Can dream yoga lead to rainbow body?

That doesnt really "dumb things down", it actually complicates the question.

Since one can implement the methods that lead to rainbow body during dream yoga I dont see why it would be impossible.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 3:27 am 
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Josef wrote:
That doesnt really "dumb things down", it actually complicates the question.


Well actually its the same freaking question.

Eliminating all delusion regarding the basis = "rainbow body".


:rolling:


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 3:29 am 
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SSJ3Gogeta wrote:
Josef wrote:
That doesnt really "dumb things down", it actually complicates the question.


Well actually its the same exact question.

Eliminating all delusion regarding the basis = "rainbow body".


I wouldnt say that.
One can eliminate delusions and one can fully integrate.
One is dependent upon the mind while the other is not.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 3:29 am 
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Josef wrote:
I wouldnt say that.
One can eliminate delusions and one can fully integrate.
One is dependent upon the mind while the other is not.


What?


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 3:34 am 
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SSJ3Gogeta wrote:
Josef wrote:
I wouldnt say that.
One can eliminate delusions and one can fully integrate.
One is dependent upon the mind while the other is not.


What?

Delusion is a based on mind.
True realization like rainbow body is not.
You can eliminate delusions about the nature of the base and oneself, which is based on mental concepts.
You can fully integrate into that nature, which is not based on mental concepts.


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