Ch'an understanding of Suffering

mettafou
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Ch'an understanding of Suffering

Postby mettafou » Tue May 18, 2010 1:22 am

Can anyone clarify the Ch'an understanding of Suffering, with the emphasis that different beings have different needs?

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Dexing
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Re: Ch'an understanding of Suffering

Postby Dexing » Tue May 18, 2010 2:39 am

nopalabhyate...

mettafou
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Re: Ch'an understanding of Suffering

Postby mettafou » Tue May 18, 2010 7:47 am

thanks. in ch'an there is no conception of samsara or nibbana, is this correct? :anjali:

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Huifeng
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Re: Ch'an understanding of Suffering

Postby Huifeng » Tue May 18, 2010 8:14 am



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Huifeng
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Re: Ch'an understanding of Suffering

Postby Huifeng » Tue May 18, 2010 8:22 am



mettafou
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Re: Ch'an understanding of Suffering

Postby mettafou » Tue May 18, 2010 9:19 am


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Huifeng
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Re: Ch'an understanding of Suffering

Postby Huifeng » Tue May 18, 2010 9:38 am



mettafou
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Re: Ch'an understanding of Suffering

Postby mettafou » Tue May 18, 2010 9:57 am


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Huifeng
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Re: Ch'an understanding of Suffering

Postby Huifeng » Tue May 18, 2010 10:47 am

My thoughts on that article? Not specifically Chan, but my own thoughts ...

All stems from the problem of considering nirvana as something uncaused.
Then one gets into the quandry of what does one do, in fact, what can one do, to get to something which is uncaused? So people say, "Oh, just do nothing!" ummm, well it is true on one level, but 99% of people will mislead it.

But I think that:
Duhkha arises as the result from the presence of the defilements which are the cause.
That's a clear dependent origination.
Duhkha ceases due to the absence of these defilements.
The process of removal the defilements is the path, and the cessation is nirvana.

Duhkha and origin are dependent arising, the mundane.
Cessation and path are dependent cessation, the transmundane.

Now, nirvana is "not caused" but not in the sense of a thing which has no causes, but in the sense of it is the absence of result due to the absence of cause. In order to remove the cause, it isn't just a case of "do nothing", because for most people this just leaves their original defilements intact. Rather, one engages in actions which actively remove the defilements.

We could liken it to driving a car. If we have our foot on the gas, then we move on, travelling on highway samsara. Our aim is to stop, which is a kind of "doing nothing", unconditioned by the motor driving us forward. However, the best response is to actively take the foot off the gas, removal the main cause, and putting it on the brake.

Sorry if :offtopic: but ...


White Lotus
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Re: Ch'an understanding of Suffering

Postby White Lotus » Wed May 19, 2010 7:39 pm

sorry, this is right off topic, but i would notice the statement "all that Jazz" because i am quite a keen listener of Jazz FM (radio)... and today a van passed the bus and had "all that jazz" written on its side. so, i noticed!

so i guess we have to watch out for getting swamped in arguments such as dual and non dual, conditioned and un-conditioned. easy to take sides and sometimes necessary.

i have found that as i have progressed in my buddhist practice that i generate less causes for suffering, and so my life is easier... but still suffering from time to time.

best wishes, White Lotus.
in any matters of importance. dont rely on me. i may not know what i am talking about. take what i say as mere speculation. i am not ordained. nor do i have a formal training. i do believe though that if i am wrong on any point. there are those on this site who i hope will quickly point out my mistakes.

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Bodhi
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Re: Ch'an understanding of Suffering

Postby Bodhi » Fri Jul 16, 2010 11:01 pm

Wherever you are, that is where the mind should be. Always be mindful, and be your own master. This is true freedom. - Grand Master Wei Chueh

Rakz
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Re: Ch'an understanding of Suffering

Postby Rakz » Sat Jul 17, 2010 4:14 am


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Dexing
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Re: Ch'an understanding of Suffering

Postby Dexing » Sat Jul 17, 2010 6:09 am

nopalabhyate...

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Huifeng
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Re: Ch'an understanding of Suffering

Postby Huifeng » Sat Jul 17, 2010 6:16 am



Rakz
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Re: Ch'an understanding of Suffering

Postby Rakz » Sat Jul 17, 2010 7:01 am

Funny stuff. The site I got it from didn't name you after the quote. I was thinking it was written by Thanissaro Bhikkhu to refute Buddha nature. If that's not the case then I'm curious to know how you would respond to your own inquiry? :smile:

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Huifeng
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Re: Ch'an understanding of Suffering

Postby Huifeng » Sat Jul 17, 2010 10:47 am



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Huifeng
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Re: Ch'an understanding of Suffering

Postby Huifeng » Sat Jul 17, 2010 10:49 am

Was it that your "this" was referring to what came next? whereas I took your "this" to refer to the post that you had quoted above it, which I had written?


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Dexing
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Re: Ch'an understanding of Suffering

Postby Dexing » Sat Jul 17, 2010 5:11 pm

nopalabhyate...

Rakz
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Re: Ch'an understanding of Suffering

Postby Rakz » Sat Jul 17, 2010 7:21 pm



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