Dharma should not be made into a religion?

Discuss and learn about the traditional Mahayana scriptures, without assuming that any one school ‘owns’ the only correct interpretation.
Namshe
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Dharma should not be made into a religion?

Postby Namshe » Sat Jul 17, 2010 2:12 am

In any of the Mahayana sutras or those of the Tripitaka, did the Buddha ever directly advise against turning the Dharma into a religion or philosophy of sorts? Are there written records of such a statement in any of the sutras, or is this a reinterpretation or misinterpretation? Can something along the lines of "do not make the Dharma into a religion" be attributed to the Buddha? Did the Buddha ask that his teachings not be taken as religious teachings?

Are there sources other than the Kalama Sutta of the Tripitaka that advise against blind faith or other traditionally "religious" tendencies such as superstition, mystical beliefs, and ritual?

I'm wondering if this can be traced to the sutras, or if it is a modern view without any scriptural support.

Chaz
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Re: Dharma should not be made into a religion?

Postby Chaz » Sat Jul 17, 2010 2:17 am


Namshe
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Re: Dharma should not be made into a religion?

Postby Namshe » Sat Jul 17, 2010 2:27 am


Chaz
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Re: Dharma should not be made into a religion?

Postby Chaz » Sat Jul 17, 2010 2:39 am


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Dexing
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Re: Dharma should not be made into a religion?

Postby Dexing » Sat Jul 17, 2010 3:11 am

The Diamond Sutra is pretty direct:

A.F. Price translation:

Chapter 6:

"My teaching of the Good Law is to be likened unto a raft.
[Does a man who has safely crossed a flood upon a raft
continue his journey carrying that raft upon his head?]
The Buddha-teaching must be relinquished;
how much more so mis-teaching!"


What sort of religion is it if it is to be relinquished? It is merely a tool to combat our delusions such as selfhood, not to create another religious identity around! You never replace one I-my-me for another.

Chapter 8:

"Subhuti, what is called "the Religion given by Buddha" is not, in fact Buddha-Religion."

Buddha-Religion is the translation here of Buddha-Dharma, basically the Buddha's teaching. Whatever you want to call it, it's not that. His real teaching is not something that can be formulated, written down, studied, or adopted as a religion. That's all Ordinary Beings' language.

Hence it is said in Chapter 7:

"Subhuti, what do you think? Has the Tathagata attained the Consummation of Incomparable Enlightenment? Has the Tathagata a teaching to enunciate?

Subhuti answered: As I understand Buddha's meaning there is no formulation of truth called Consummation of Incomparable Enlightenment. Moreover, the Tathagata has no formulated teaching to enunciate. Wherefore? Because the Tathagata has said that truth is uncontainable and inexpressible. It neither is nor is it not. Thus it is that this unformulated Principle is the foundation of the different systems of all the sages."


Religion is Ordinary Beings' speech, something which can be contained in written form and expressed in words, creeds, systems of belief, etc..

The Buddha's true teaching is clearly not that.

:namaste:
nopalabhyate...

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Huifeng
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Re: Dharma should not be made into a religion?

Postby Huifeng » Sat Jul 17, 2010 3:56 am



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Huifeng
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Re: Dharma should not be made into a religion?

Postby Huifeng » Sat Jul 17, 2010 4:06 am



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Dexing
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Re: Dharma should not be made into a religion?

Postby Dexing » Sat Jul 17, 2010 5:17 am

nopalabhyate...

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Huifeng
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Re: Dharma should not be made into a religion?

Postby Huifeng » Sat Jul 17, 2010 6:01 am



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Indrajala
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Re: Dharma should not be made into a religion?

Postby Indrajala » Sat Jul 17, 2010 6:24 am

tad etat sarvajñānaṃ karuṇāmūlaṃ bodhicittahetukam upāyaparyavasānam iti |

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Bodhi
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Re: Dharma should not be made into a religion?

Postby Bodhi » Sat Jul 17, 2010 6:38 am

Wherever you are, that is where the mind should be. Always be mindful, and be your own master. This is true freedom. - Grand Master Wei Chueh

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Indrajala
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Re: Dharma should not be made into a religion?

Postby Indrajala » Sat Jul 17, 2010 6:40 am

tad etat sarvajñānaṃ karuṇāmūlaṃ bodhicittahetukam upāyaparyavasānam iti |

muni
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Re: Dharma should not be made into a religion?

Postby muni » Sat Jul 17, 2010 8:29 am


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Nicholas Weeks
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Re: Dharma should not be made into a religion?

Postby Nicholas Weeks » Sat Jul 17, 2010 3:41 pm

"it is a modern view without any scriptural support."

One does not teach for decades what all Buddhas before taught and form a community of believers and expect a nightclub to result.
A bodhisattva does not become weary of evil beings nor does he commit the error of bringing forth thoughts inclined to reject them and cast them aside. Avatamsaka Sutra, ch. 25


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