Why end suffering?

Alleviating worldly suffering along the way.

Re: Why end suffering?

Postby Drew » Thu Apr 05, 2012 4:53 pm

Perhaps it is helpful to first conceive of the awareness of suffering as internal and external phenomena, before melting them. When I first dump oatmeal in the pot of water, before I heat and stir and stir and heat, and before the rolled oats and water are not two, they are not one.

With respect to the internal, when suffering ourselves, if we are by grace able to taste the primordial mind and the true nature of cause of our suffering is revealed, then relieved, in a sense, one may come to behold the suffering with a certain reverence and appreciation, for without it would you have beheld the grace and awareness to transcend?

With respect to the external, samasara is found wherever man is found.

Compassion, forms the wellspring of intent to rise up from beneath the bodhi tree. The fire stoked by the bellows of open hearted compassion is the drive to build the cairn, to walk on with the truth, to show the way, to demonstrate the revelation of contentment to those with the capacity for understanding.
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Re: Why end suffering?

Postby The Thinker » Sun Jul 01, 2012 11:06 pm

I think that if one try to end suffering before the understanding of why we have to suffer, we could not walk the path of Buddhism.
And i dont think suffering is a beautiful thing when it happens to someone but if one can calm the mind when suffering and look in to one self, then the suffering come less painful because you know it is from suffering we will one day be able to become enlightened.

My view can of course be wrong but i hope to learn it on my journey on cultivating

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Re: Why end suffering?

Postby seeker242 » Mon Jul 02, 2012 1:48 am

lotwell wrote:Based on the assumption that the end of all suffering is the ultimate goal of the bodhisattva's path, why end suffering?

Suffering is not a bad thing. In fact, it is really quite beautiful. Without suffering, we would not have the ability to expereience and cultivate compassion.



If there were no suffering, then what need would there be to cultivate compassion? :shrug:
One should not kill any living being, nor cause it to be killed, nor should one incite any other to kill. Do never injure any being, whether strong or weak, in this entire universe!
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Re: Why end suffering?

Postby freefromsamsara » Wed Aug 15, 2012 12:52 pm

Suffering exist to motivate humanity to leave the cycle of rebirth and death.
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Re: Why end suffering?

Postby Son » Tue Aug 21, 2012 4:02 am

The problem us that all of us seek bliss. There is not one being anywhere who seeks absolute suffering. Part of experiencing suffering is that we don't want it. The mere fact of not wanting to suffer uplifts suffering. This is the complete reason of the middle way. There is no avoiding the will to end suffering, because we are all constantly suffering. In an anagami, who is so close to nirvana, is still caught in suffering. They have not seen the end of suffering. Once they have, they no longer seek to end suffering. However there is just the incentive to help others find what you have found.

The question is not why end suffering. More accurately, why shouldn't we end suffering? There is no reason not to end suffering for all beings.
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Re: Why end suffering?

Postby Nothing » Tue Aug 21, 2012 12:03 pm

lotwell wrote:Based on the assumption that the end of all suffering is the ultimate goal of the bodhisattva's path, why end suffering?

Suffering is not a bad thing. In fact, it is really quite beautiful. Without suffering, we would not have the ability to expereience and cultivate compassion.

Furthermore, it seems that suffering will not go away. Keeping in mind that enlightened being are just as human as we are, do they not experience headahces?

Of course we must distinguish between pain and suffering. Pain arising from our nervous system and suffering being a product of our mental reactions.

Lotwell

To use suffering to generate compassion are part of the same coin, you cannot get one without the other. These are just mere reactions and are totally helpless and does not solve the actual problem of existence.

It would be delusional for one who enjoys this suffering and compassion taking place as this would be an attachment of a view.

You are correct that enlightened beings are humans too and will have the same experiences and again you are holding a view based on a human being as this does not make your case stronger. By holding a view "Why end suffering?" is the first and foremost mistake. There are no views, nothing!

Suffering doesn't actually exist, there are no such things, they only exist in the mind, and that in itself does not even exist because you are not real, you don't really exist at all, nothing! So if you are not real then everything that you experience cannot be real either.

There is a way out of all this and that is not to exist, the purpose is to end! to become Nothing!
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Re: Why end suffering?

Postby KeithBC » Tue Aug 21, 2012 7:00 pm

lotwell wrote:Based on the assumption that the end of all suffering is the ultimate goal of the bodhisattva's path, why end suffering?

The question forces a circular argument. Suffering is that which we wish to end. If there is nothing we wish to end, we are enlightened.

Om mani padme hum
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Re: Why end suffering?

Postby Jyoti » Fri Aug 24, 2012 8:23 am

Son wrote:The problem us that all of us seek bliss. There is not one being anywhere who seeks absolute suffering. Part of experiencing suffering is that we don't want it. The mere fact of not wanting to suffer uplifts suffering. This is the complete reason of the middle way. There is no avoiding the will to end suffering, because we are all constantly suffering. In an anagami, who is so close to nirvana, is still caught in suffering. They have not seen the end of suffering. Once they have, they no longer seek to end suffering. However there is just the incentive to help others find what you have found.

The question is not why end suffering. More accurately, why shouldn't we end suffering? There is no reason not to end suffering for all beings.


Suffering is part of the impure vision (samsara), the provisional means of 2 yanas rely on the body (nirvana) to attain the body (nirvana), thus the suffering has to cease in order for this side to be in concordance with the nirvana (which is absence of suffering), this side of the means has to be conceptually fabricated as the body. The provisional means of the mahayana rely on the means (bodhi) to attain the means (bodhi), here the means has no need to be in concordance with the body (nirvana), thus the path of the bodhisattva is not aim at cessation of suffering, but to involved in the provisional means (bodhi) forever (if required) to finally realized the ultimate means (bodhi). The definitive meaning of the mahayana rely on the means (bodhi) to attain the body (nirvana), similar to the provisional means of mahayana, there is no seeking of cessation of suffering, the means here is the directly perceived 'reason' of the body (nirvana), there is no contriving of the means with the body, and the 'reason' remain authentic, this is the pure vision, where 'suffering' is no longer view as suffering.'

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Re: Why end suffering?

Postby Son » Sat Aug 25, 2012 5:53 am

Jyoti wrote:
Son wrote:The problem us that all of us seek bliss. There is not one being anywhere who seeks absolute suffering. Part of experiencing suffering is that we don't want it. The mere fact of not wanting to suffer uplifts suffering. This is the complete reason of the middle way. There is no avoiding the will to end suffering, because we are all constantly suffering. In an anagami, who is so close to nirvana, is still caught in suffering. They have not seen the end of suffering. Once they have, they no longer seek to end suffering. However there is just the incentive to help others find what you have found.

The question is not why end suffering. More accurately, why shouldn't we end suffering? There is no reason not to end suffering for all beings.


Suffering is part of the impure vision (samsara), the provisional means of 2 yanas rely on the body (nirvana) to attain the body (nirvana), thus the suffering has to cease in order for this side to be in concordance with the nirvana (which is absence of suffering), this side of the means has to be conceptually fabricated as the body. The provisional means of the mahayana rely on the means (bodhi) to attain the means (bodhi), here the means has no need to be in concordance with the body (nirvana), thus the path of the bodhisattva is not aim at cessation of suffering, but to involved in the provisional means (bodhi) forever (if required) to finally realized the ultimate means (bodhi). The definitive meaning of the mahayana rely on the means (bodhi) to attain the body (nirvana), similar to the provisional means of mahayana, there is no seeking of cessation of suffering, the means here is the directly perceived 'reason' of the body (nirvana), there is no contriving of the means with the body, and the 'reason' remain authentic, this is the pure vision, where 'suffering' is no longer view as suffering.'

jyoti


I don't any Buddha views suffering as suffering, because that makes suffering seem absolute. I think we regard other things as suffering, whatever causes suffering. Buddhas however do recognize suffering and eventually end suffering themselves to achieve supreme vision of the universe.
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Re: Why end suffering?

Postby muni » Sat Aug 25, 2012 8:09 am

Warm heart is no luxury, is very necessary in human interconnection.

Rest in natural great peace
this exhausted mind
beaten helpless by karma and neurotic thought,
like the relentless fury of the pounding waves
in the infinite ocean of samsara.

Nyoshul Khenpo Rinpoche

Then those having understood can help, guide other beings, as their very heart.
A Nyingma teaching.

Bowing.
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Re: Why end suffering?

Postby Kaji » Tue Aug 28, 2012 10:13 am

Allow me to bring up this analogy...

You are inflicted with this skin disease that causes a lot of itchiness, from which you suffer. You scratch the affected area; you feel better and call it happiness, which last only for so long. Soon after you feel itchy and have to scratch again. Sometimes you don't have a free hand to scratch and have to bear with the itchiness for a long time. Also, if you scratch too much or too hard, the skin becomes painful and might even get a bleeding wound.

Would it not be a good thing to cure this skin disease once and for all?

Once you have the cure, would you like to share it with others and help cure them?

Of course, if you see the true nature of this disease, your skin, your body and even yourself, and those of others, there might not be anything to cure in the first place.
Namas triya-dhvikānāṃ sarva tathāgatānām!
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Re: Why end suffering?

Postby magickstonegirl » Tue Aug 28, 2012 2:45 pm

I understand what you're saying about how suffering makes us stronger people, and so forth, and there is wisdom or lessons to be learnt from finding ourselves in difficult situations.

But the problem with that is very few people realise that when they're right in the middle of the difficulties. Of all the people in the world, there are very few of us even on this forum thinking and talking about such things. So you can imagine how many millions or people out there would not even have that concept of suffering being a means to gain strength etc. If someone, like the child in the photo, is struggling to even survive, the suffering is far more real and direct and experienced in a deeper way than the rest of us who would have the privilege to "think" about the lessons to be learnt from such and such experience.

Not meaning to slate anyone here, just my thoughts!
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Re: Why end suffering?

Postby muni » Wed Aug 29, 2012 8:54 am

magickstonegirl wrote:I understand what you're saying about how suffering makes us stronger people, and so forth, and there is wisdom or lessons to be learnt from finding ourselves in difficult situations.

But the problem with that is very few people realise that when they're right in the middle of the difficulties. Of all the people in the world, there are very few of us even on this forum thinking and talking about such things. So you can imagine how many millions or people out there would not even have that concept of suffering being a means to gain strength etc. If someone, like the child in the photo, is struggling to even survive, the suffering is far more real and direct and experienced in a deeper way than the rest of us who would have the privilege to "think" about the lessons to be learnt from such and such experience.

Not meaning to slate anyone here, just my thoughts!


I agree with you. To take your example about being right in the middle of difficulties, then indeed we can forget all the teachings and turn absorbed in pain.Therefore to watch out, for mind to not get lost in pain, or the poor child, but to remain mindful/aware of ones own mind and train this. We need to practice since we all like to say after rain the sun will shine. But it is also opposite.
When we are healthy we like to know all about. But when we aren't, knowledge can emerge into practice. If mind runs out to the image of the poor child, we lose mindfulness and become ourselves very sad, which is not exactly helping. Then when we can help in some clarity without needless suffering ourselves; we help. When not, worry only will not help.
To put the teachings into daily life can help all of us.
May nobody suffer. :anjali:
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Re: Why end suffering?

Postby muni » Wed Aug 29, 2012 10:05 am

Kaji:
"Would it not be a good thing to cure this skin disease once and for all?
Once you have the cure, would you like to share it with others and help cure them"?



Yes, we would.
Buddha spoke of 4 characteristics of suffering; impermanence here refering to products' causes and conditions which are the basis for its destruction - not aware of the nature of moments..., dissatisfaction, identitylessness and selflessness.

May nobody suffer.
:namaste:
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Re: Why end suffering?

Postby lobster » Sat Sep 22, 2012 2:37 am

ignorance is ugly and unskilful
Suffering and ignorance will always be with us.

We work towards well being, providing answers . . .
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