Dorje Drolo and Dzogchen

dakini_boi
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Re: Dorje Drolo and Dzogchen

Postby dakini_boi » Sat Aug 25, 2012 6:35 pm

Malcolm wrote:I have also been told, in connection with the Tersar lineage that Drollo is considered something like the essence of Kilaya and when I talked with Shenphen Rinpoche, he confirmed that indeed, all the instructions from Namchag Putri concerning Dzogchen etc., were applicable to Drollo since there is no elaborate set ofseperate teachings on Dzogchen for Drollo.


Is this the case also with tsa lung practices? I.E. the tsa lung from Namchag Putri being applied as completion stage practices for Dorje Drollo?

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Malcolm
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Re: Dorje Drolo and Dzogchen

Postby Malcolm » Sat Aug 25, 2012 7:01 pm

dakini_boi wrote:
Malcolm wrote:I have also been told, in connection with the Tersar lineage that Drollo is considered something like the essence of Kilaya and when I talked with Shenphen Rinpoche, he confirmed that indeed, all the instructions from Namchag Putri concerning Dzogchen etc., were applicable to Drollo since there is no elaborate set ofseperate teachings on Dzogchen for Drollo.


Is this the case also with tsa lung practices? I.E. the tsa lung from Namchag Putri being applied as completion stage practices for Dorje Drollo?



Yes, precisely.
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heart
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Re: Dorje Drolo and Dzogchen

Postby heart » Sat Aug 25, 2012 10:18 pm

SSJ3Gogeta wrote:
Malcolm wrote:which is where the lower activities are concerned


?


In Phurba there are two kinds of activity, the higher activities are for attaining enlightenment while the lower activities are for subduing any kind of obstacle.

/magnus
We are all here to help each other go through this, whatever it is.
~Kurt Vonnegut

"To reject practice by saying, 'it is conceptual!' is the path of fools. A tendency of the inexperienced and something to be avoided."
- Longchenpa

"Even though you have recognized your essence, if you do not get accustomed to it,
You will be carried away by the enemy of thoughts, like a small child in a battle field.
So long as you are not free from the limitations of accepting and rejecting,
That long will you not recognize the view of the innermost secret heart-essence."

-Longchenpa

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Fa Dao
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Re: Dorje Drolo and Dzogchen

Postby Fa Dao » Sat Aug 25, 2012 11:46 pm

So the Dorje Drolo transmission/teachings that many of us got from CNNR was a terma of Adzom Drugpa, right? Does anybody have that? And if so in English? Would love to be able to see/practice the whole thing.
"But if you know how to observe yourself, you will discover your real nature, the primordial state, the state of Guruyoga, and then all will become clear because you will have discovered everything"-Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche

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arsent
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Re: Dorje Drolo and Dzogchen

Postby arsent » Sun Aug 26, 2012 12:02 am

Fa Dao wrote:So the Dorje Drolo transmission/teachings that many of us got from CNNR was a terma of Adzom Drugpa, right? Does anybody have that? And if so in English? Would love to be able to see/practice the whole thing.

I am also searching for this..

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Re: Dorje Drolo and Dzogchen

Postby Yudron » Sun Aug 26, 2012 2:30 am

arsent wrote:
Fa Dao wrote:So the Dorje Drolo transmission/teachings that many of us got from CNNR was a terma of Adzom Drugpa, right? Does anybody have that? And if so in English? Would love to be able to see/practice the whole thing.

I am also searching for this..


It's in a whole volume of Adzom Drukpa's Drollo cycle in Tibetan in the TBRC library and can be ordered. If you have had the specific wang and lung for it I could direct you to people who might direct you to translations of the daily practice (Gyun Khyer) and medium length practice.
Author of Buddhist young adult fiction. http://www.YudronWangmo.com Vlogger at Wisdom and Compassion: Grandma Yudron's Totally Chill Vlog on Meditation and Tibetan Wisdom https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCRsrq0-64YSgUjk39DmN_Ag

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Fa Dao
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Re: Dorje Drolo and Dzogchen

Postby Fa Dao » Sun Aug 26, 2012 4:55 am

Yudron,
that would be wonderful..thank you..please feel free to PM me
"But if you know how to observe yourself, you will discover your real nature, the primordial state, the state of Guruyoga, and then all will become clear because you will have discovered everything"-Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche

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arsent
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Re: Dorje Drolo and Dzogchen

Postby arsent » Sun Aug 26, 2012 6:17 am

Yudron wrote:
arsent wrote:
Fa Dao wrote:So the Dorje Drolo transmission/teachings that many of us got from CNNR was a terma of Adzom Drugpa, right? Does anybody have that? And if so in English? Would love to be able to see/practice the whole thing.

I am also searching for this..


It's in a whole volume of Adzom Drukpa's Drollo cycle in Tibetan in the TBRC library and can be ordered. If you have had the specific wang and lung for it I could direct you to people who might direct you to translations of the daily practice (Gyun Khyer) and medium length practice.


Thanks, Yudron!

I have lung and wang from ChNNR that was given during Dorje Drolo retreat translations on February 2012.
Have no idea of what parts of text exactly was given - it seems to me it was short sadhana and something more.., please correct me someone who know details.
Can you please PM details regarding contacts you mentioned?

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heart
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Re: Dorje Drolo and Dzogchen

Postby heart » Sun Aug 26, 2012 9:08 am

ChNNR gave the "donwang" and "lung" for the daily practice (Gyun Khyer) of Adzom Drugpa's Drollo.

/magnus
We are all here to help each other go through this, whatever it is.
~Kurt Vonnegut

"To reject practice by saying, 'it is conceptual!' is the path of fools. A tendency of the inexperienced and something to be avoided."
- Longchenpa

"Even though you have recognized your essence, if you do not get accustomed to it,
You will be carried away by the enemy of thoughts, like a small child in a battle field.
So long as you are not free from the limitations of accepting and rejecting,
That long will you not recognize the view of the innermost secret heart-essence."

-Longchenpa

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ratna
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Re: Dorje Drolo and Dzogchen

Postby ratna » Sun Aug 26, 2012 9:52 am

heart wrote:ChNNR gave the "donwang" and "lung" for the daily practice (Gyun Khyer) of Adzom Drugpa's Drollo.



Also, the Most Secret Practice of Hūṃ from that cycle.

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heart
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Re: Dorje Drolo and Dzogchen

Postby heart » Sun Aug 26, 2012 4:42 pm

ratna wrote:
heart wrote:ChNNR gave the "donwang" and "lung" for the daily practice (Gyun Khyer) of Adzom Drugpa's Drollo.



Also, the Most Secret Practice of Hūṃ from that cycle.


Thanks ratna for that information.

/magnus
We are all here to help each other go through this, whatever it is.
~Kurt Vonnegut

"To reject practice by saying, 'it is conceptual!' is the path of fools. A tendency of the inexperienced and something to be avoided."
- Longchenpa

"Even though you have recognized your essence, if you do not get accustomed to it,
You will be carried away by the enemy of thoughts, like a small child in a battle field.
So long as you are not free from the limitations of accepting and rejecting,
That long will you not recognize the view of the innermost secret heart-essence."

-Longchenpa

krodha
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Re: Dorje Drolo and Dzogchen

Postby krodha » Sun Aug 26, 2012 8:04 pm

What role does Tsogyel Drollo (Vajra Mamo Tsogyel Trollo) have in reference to Dorje Drollo? Or in terms of practice? I only see info on her available from the Aro lineage when I do a search on the web... don't hear about her often if at all.
http://aroencyclopaedia.org/shared/text/t/tsogyel_trollo_dr_01_01_full_eng.php
http://www.aroencyclopaedia.org/shared/text/t/tsogyel_trollo_dr_01_02_close_eng.php

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Re: Dorje Drolo and Dzogchen

Postby Yudron » Sun Aug 26, 2012 10:02 pm

asunthatneversets wrote:What role does Tsogyel Drollo (Vajra Mamo Tsogyel Trollo) have in reference to Dorje Drollo? Or in terms of practice? I only see info on her available from the Aro lineage when I do a search on the web... don't hear about her often if at all.
http://aroencyclopaedia.org/shared/text/t/tsogyel_trollo_dr_01_01_full_eng.php
http://www.aroencyclopaedia.org/shared/text/t/tsogyel_trollo_dr_01_02_close_eng.php



There isn't any tsogyal drolo, except in Ngakpa Chogyam's experience.

The pregnant tiger that Dro lo stands upon (in most termas) is how Guru Rinpoche's consort Tashi Chidren appeared in her wrathful manifestation.
Author of Buddhist young adult fiction. http://www.YudronWangmo.com Vlogger at Wisdom and Compassion: Grandma Yudron's Totally Chill Vlog on Meditation and Tibetan Wisdom https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCRsrq0-64YSgUjk39DmN_Ag

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Re: Dorje Drolo and Dzogchen

Postby username » Sun Aug 26, 2012 10:58 pm

asunthatneversets wrote:What role does Tsogyel Drollo (Vajra Mamo Tsogyel Trollo) have in reference to Dorje Drollo? Or in terms of practice? I only see info on her available from the Aro lineage when I do a search on the web... don't hear about her often if at all.
http://aroencyclopaedia.org/shared/text/t/tsogyel_trollo_dr_01_01_full_eng.php
http://www.aroencyclopaedia.org/shared/text/t/tsogyel_trollo_dr_01_02_close_eng.php


He & his mandala of followers & donors & those with positive karmic inclination towards him, some of whom but not all practice this plus other things of his, said in private it is not his mere "experience" but his actual "terma" & now after years of consistent denials, which also turned out to be untrue in the end, some of them are coming out & saying it publicly, ie: he is a terton. Personally I don't think so. It is getting out of hand as expected but these things have a well defined cycle.
Dzogchen masters I know say: 1)Buddhist religion essence is Dzogchen 2)Religions are positive by intent/fruit 3)Any method's OK unless: breaking Dzogchen vows, mixed as syncretic (Milanese Soup) 4)Don't join mandalas of opponents of Dalai Lama/Padmasambhava: False Deity inventors by encouraging victims 5)Don't debate Ati with others 6)Don't discuss Ati practices online 7) A master told his old disciple: no one's to discuss his teaching with some others on a former forum nor mention him. Publicity's OK, questions are asked from masters/set teachers in person/email/non-public forums~Best wishes

krodha
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Re: Dorje Drolo and Dzogchen

Postby krodha » Mon Aug 27, 2012 5:24 am

username wrote:
asunthatneversets wrote:What role does Tsogyel Drollo (Vajra Mamo Tsogyel Trollo) have in reference to Dorje Drollo? Or in terms of practice? I only see info on her available from the Aro lineage when I do a search on the web... don't hear about her often if at all.
http://aroencyclopaedia.org/shared/text/t/tsogyel_trollo_dr_01_01_full_eng.php
http://www.aroencyclopaedia.org/shared/text/t/tsogyel_trollo_dr_01_02_close_eng.php


He & his mandala of followers & donors & those with positive karmic inclination towards him, some of whom but not all practice this plus other things of his, said in private it is not his mere "experience" but his actual "terma" & now after years of consistent denials, which also turned out to be untrue in the end, some of them are coming out & saying it publicly, ie: he is a terton. Personally I don't think so. It is getting out of hand as expected but these things have a well defined cycle.


Interesting. That guy seems to be shrouded in controversy.

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Re: Dorje Drolo and Dzogchen

Postby username » Mon Aug 27, 2012 6:44 pm

Dorje Drolo takes care of various incarnations of major Damsi (dam sri) as target who are big-time samaya breakers who opposed their gurus & vajrayana rules including the demonic fake tertons who are amongst the most evil beings as long term enemies of Padmasambhava & Yeshe Tsogyal in disguise, harmful local spirits of various kind, bad nagas rakshas stenmos & other malevolent particular cases of the eight classes who have fallen down & cause problems, unlike the good cases. However other practices such as Simhamukha, Guru Dargpur & Garuda should not be abandoned as they too are specialists and also tackle a variety of cases very well as in Guru Dragpur. Many great masters used different practices in various times as advised or from clarity to suit the occasion. Also we are told the accomplishments build up slowly over time. IMO they too are indispensable in the long run as many masters insist on practicing them as well as Dorje Drolo.
Dzogchen masters I know say: 1)Buddhist religion essence is Dzogchen 2)Religions are positive by intent/fruit 3)Any method's OK unless: breaking Dzogchen vows, mixed as syncretic (Milanese Soup) 4)Don't join mandalas of opponents of Dalai Lama/Padmasambhava: False Deity inventors by encouraging victims 5)Don't debate Ati with others 6)Don't discuss Ati practices online 7) A master told his old disciple: no one's to discuss his teaching with some others on a former forum nor mention him. Publicity's OK, questions are asked from masters/set teachers in person/email/non-public forums~Best wishes

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Fa Dao
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Re: Dorje Drolo and Dzogchen

Postby Fa Dao » Tue Jun 28, 2016 3:14 am

Malcolm wrote:Drollo is means total integration. When you are totally integrated, everything becomes your servant.

I saw another translation I thought was odd "Vajra Sagging Belly"...thoughts?
"But if you know how to observe yourself, you will discover your real nature, the primordial state, the state of Guruyoga, and then all will become clear because you will have discovered everything"-Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche

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Malcolm
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Re: Dorje Drolo and Dzogchen

Postby Malcolm » Tue Jun 28, 2016 3:32 am

Fa Dao wrote:
Malcolm wrote:Drollo is means total integration. When you are totally integrated, everything becomes your servant.

I saw another translation I thought was odd "Vajra Sagging Belly"...thoughts?


Completely wrong.
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Tibetan Medicine Blog
Sudarsana Mandala, Tibetan Medicine and Herbs
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


So called “sentient beings” are merely delusions self-appearing from the dhātu of luminosity.

-- Ju Mipham

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Fa Dao
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Re: Dorje Drolo and Dzogchen

Postby Fa Dao » Tue Jun 28, 2016 3:39 am

thanks Malcolm..I have seen that in a few places and found it disturbing...any idea why its used?
"But if you know how to observe yourself, you will discover your real nature, the primordial state, the state of Guruyoga, and then all will become clear because you will have discovered everything"-Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche

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Re: Dorje Drolo and Dzogchen

Postby Kilaya. » Tue Jun 28, 2016 12:21 pm

Fa Dao wrote:
Malcolm wrote:Drollo is means total integration. When you are totally integrated, everything becomes your servant.

I saw another translation I thought was odd "Vajra Sagging Belly"...thoughts?


I've seen this translation myself in a book written by Lama Ole Nydahl. I wonder what the literal translation of "drollö" is?
Look at those charlatans, madly engaged
in fervent argument.
- Milarepa


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