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 Post subject: Karma and Energy
PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 10:54 pm 
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I've been reading through a lot of topics and posts on this forum tonight. Although I don't understand everything that I've read, because that will come with time, I get the bare bones of the meanings.

I see a lot of similarties between Karma and Energy. Karma has negative and positive, so does Energy.

Negative energy can be turned into positive (and vice versa)

My question is this can negative Karma be turned into positive Karma? Equally can positive Karma turn into negative Karma? I'm not sure anyone would want their positive Karma turned into negative but I'm just curious.

Everything has an action and a reaction, I understand the bacis of Karma (I think!) and this intrigues me.

Also when I refer to Energy, I do not just mean the energy floating around. I mean the energy inside everyone, thier life-force energy (how Chi flows through the body) and the energies of the Chakras and Auras.

Edit: I underlined the questions so they wouldn't get "lost" in all the blurb.

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 Post subject: Re: Karma and Energy
PostPosted: Sat Aug 25, 2012 3:24 am 
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Gosh, where to start? That's a pretty complicated question, and I suspect everyone will see this differently.

Firstly, the idea of energy, chakras, etc. is seen as being non-material, and one may work with them to influence karma.

Certainly, under "normal" conditions karma cannot be transformed in that way, but rather must be used up, however Buddhism does employ practices for purifying karma, and for generating merit.

There is no negative in the sense of having an overdraft, but if you mean good and bad karma, some people do see it that way. Personally I think that judging it as good or bad only adds more karma because one is remaining within the ideas of self-centred desire and aversion to events, judging them as good or bad accordingly.

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 Post subject: Re: Karma and Energy
PostPosted: Sat Aug 25, 2012 8:31 am 
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Thank you futerko :)

futerko wrote:
Gosh, where to start? That's a pretty complicated question, and I suspect everyone will see this differently.

This is good :) Everyone needs to be challenged into thinking now and again. It happens to me quite often with my students :)

futerko wrote:
Personally I think that judging it as good or bad only adds more karma because one is remaining within the ideas of self-centred desire and aversion to events, judging them as good or bad accordingly.


I do not look upon things as "good or bad" but "positive or negative". I agree with your views, I was taught not to look at things that happen to you as good or bad but positive or negative, because something which you think is negative can have a positive effect later on and vice versa.

futerko wrote:
Certainly, under "normal" conditions karma cannot be transformed in that way, but rather must be used up, however Buddhism does employ practices for purifying karma, and for generating merit.


Ah yes purficiation! Thank you futerko :) That would be similar to cleansing that I perform.

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 Post subject: Re: Karma and Energy
PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2012 4:58 am 
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If there is something positive and negative, of course we have to see that in positive and negative way.

But if we can see that in reality there is actually no positive and no negative, why we have to see thing in positive and negative way?

Doesn't it just show that it is a distorted view?

Mountain eruption in Mars. Is it positive or negative?
If you see about it, it is not about positive and negative, it is just a flow of dependent origination.

Mountain eruption in your hometown, which may kill million residents. Is that positive or negative?
If you see about it, it is also not about positive and negative. It is just a flow of dependent origination.

When you see there is no such thing as positive and negative, it is time to remove that from the dictionary inside our head.

There is no negative and positive karma either.
It is just karma. Just a flow. It can change to anything.

Whether we want to put that flow as positive or negative, we can of course put that label as we wish. But when you see there is actually no positive and negative, then you can see that it is indeed foolish to see this or that as negative or positive.

Why?
Because there is no such thing as positive and negative in the first place.

The way we label positive and negative is the second place, out of confusion - not knowing what the first place is.

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I am not right nor wrong.
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 Post subject: Re: Karma and Energy
PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2012 5:26 am 
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:good:

DarwidHalim wrote:
The way we label positive and negative is the second place, out of confusion - not knowing what the first place is.


:bow:

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 Post subject: Re: Karma and Energy
PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2012 8:00 am 
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Thank you for insightful reply DarwidHalim :)

It matches some views about Energy that some witches and pagans use, so I can relate to what you're saying.

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 Post subject: Re: Karma and Energy
PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2012 8:13 am 
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But aren't certain things unmistakably good (being in fine health) and certain things unmistakably bad (losing an arm)?


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 Post subject: Re: Karma and Energy
PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2012 8:20 am 
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Music: it depends on the outcome, being in fine health is 'good' but what use is it if you squander and waste your life?

Losing an arm is 'bad' but what use was that arm if you never used it to aid others?

Certain things happen in life that we have no control over. It is of the teachings of my path that "A reason for everything, everything for a reason". My path also teaches how to overcome such occurances if they should occur.

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 Post subject: Re: Karma and Energy
PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2012 2:38 pm 
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bunny wrote:
... It matches some views about Energy that some witches and pagans use, so I can relate to what you're saying.


bunny wrote:
... It is of the teachings of my path that "A reason for everything, everything for a reason". My path also teaches how to overcome such occurances if they should occur. ...


PLEASE NOTE: This website is "A Buddhist discussion forum on Mahayana and Vajrayana Buddhism" and this particular section is the Exploring Buddhism forum and it is for those wishing to discuss topics related to finding out more about Buddhism.


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 Post subject: Re: Karma and Energy
PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2012 2:54 pm 
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Apologies Tara, I was just trying to explain how I felt the answers that I received fitted in with my teachings. I'm trying to make sense of it all in my head.

I will be mindful of my wording from now on.

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 Post subject: Re: Karma and Energy
PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2012 3:01 pm 
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futerko wrote:
Gosh, where to start? That's a pretty complicated question, and I suspect everyone will see this differently.

Firstly, the idea of energy, chakras, etc. is seen as being non-material, and one may work with them to influence karma.

Certainly, under "normal" conditions karma cannot be transformed in that way, but rather must be used up, however Buddhism does employ practices for purifying karma, and for generating merit.

There is no negative in the sense of having an overdraft, but if you mean good and bad karma, some people do see it that way. Personally I think that judging it as good or bad only adds more karma because one is remaining within the ideas of self-centred desire and aversion to events, judging them as good or bad accordingly.

I have read that in addition to the four universal forces recognised by today's physics, in Buddhism three more forces are understood to exist:
- Karmic force
- Empowerment force
- Willpower (or the force of vow)

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 Post subject: Re: Karma and Energy
PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 2:52 am 
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For example, treating your spouse properly can lead to positive "sex karma." ... :namaste: I haven't really studied on what the Buddha teaches about Karma in general but have a vague idea...says something about will,volition,or force creating kamma energies.


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 Post subject: Re: Karma and Energy
PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 3:23 am 
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To provide a fuller picture. Karma is the cause and effect relationship. The storehouse consciousness is the center for the effect or retribution. Since the beginning, all seeds are stored as innate within the storehouse consciousness, but without being perfumed, these seeds do not take effect/retribution. To perfume the seed, it required activity (energy), the 7 consciousnesses are the agents of activity. Within all the innate seeds, they are positive and negative seeds, positive seeds refer to seed that lead to awakening, whereas the negative seeds lead to ignorance. By performing positive acts, the positive seeds are perfumed, being perfumed, it manifests as positive phenomena, through positive interaction with these phenomena, new positive seeds will be engendered, when new seeds are being perfumed, it manifests further positive phenomena, and this process of positive growth continue as long as the storehouse consciousness is not being arrested by the fruit of arahat. Conversely, if negative acts are performed, the negative seeds will be perfumed and lead to manifestation of negative phenomena, and through negative interaction with these phenomena, new nagative seeds will be engendered, and the process of negative growth will continue leading to suffering that has no ending.

Jyoti


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 Post subject: Re: Karma and Energy
PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 4:13 am 
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Buddha taught extensively about karma. Good actions bring happiness, negative actions bring suffering.
http://viewonbuddhism.org/karma.html


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 Post subject: Re: Karma and Energy
PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 4:30 am 
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Tilopa wrote:
http://viewonbuddhism.org/karma.html


Thank you for the link, Tilopa. At the very beginning of the article, this is a good note:

Quote:
In the west, the word karma is often used for the results of karma; the Sanskrit words for the effects or results of karma are 'vipaka' or 'phala'.


These are good terms to indicate the outcomes of karma: ' consequences' (vipāka) or 'fruit' (phala). The word 'retribution' implies that karma is an 'external agent' and, in the West, is closely linked to the 'smiting' creator God of the Christian Old Testament.

:namaste:

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If they can sever like and dislike, along with greed, anger, and delusion, regardless of their difference in nature, they will all accomplish the Buddha Path.. ~ Sutra of Complete Enlightenment


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 Post subject: Re: Karma and Energy
PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 3:49 pm 
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hi bunny, that's an interesting question. I have had some exposure to new age practices also, so I can relate to the question you are asking. In a Buddhist sense (I have also been learning and reading up on this lately also), I think it isn't that karma is "recycled" or transformed in the same way that energy is. Also, from what I understand the karma itself which we accrue is not necessarily good or bad. It is what comes out of that karma that determines if it is good or bad. For example traditionally we might think that it is good karma to be born into a wealth family, with good physical environment and circumstances. But if that environment makes us lazy, selfish, arrogant people, then actually the wealth and "good" conditions is a result of negative karma. so something is determined to be good or bad depending on whether it brings us to a better place, to be better people etc. I hope you know what I mean.

Also, I don't think it is so straightforward to just transform or convert bad karma to good, or vice versa. But that it is more about purification of karma (good or bad, because, as illustrated above, karma can lead to all kinds of situations, not necessarily good and which keeps us in this existence). And also, to accumulate what is called merit, which is positive and which helps us further on our spiritual path.

I hope this has made some sense.


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