New Kadampa Tradition

[Luke]

Hi Craig,

Yes, this discussion always breeds negativity. It's such a shame, and I wish it were different. It's been over a decade and there's no resolution in sight.

Yes, anger on either side doesn't lead to anything good. The web is already full of information about this controversy. No thread is going to make anyone change their opinions.

I would think that members of the NKT would enjoy discussing the core topics of Buddhism as well if they truly are Buddhists. This is only one topic among many in the vast subject of Vajrayana.

[davcuts]

Caz,

There are currently over 800 members in the Survivors group. That might not seem like much, but don't forget the NKTs own chat group had 2000 members before it shut down. The abuse that took place at NKT centers was wide spread and it still continues. I have read at NKT Truth where they claim to have changed. From the new members at the Survivors group it's hard to believe anything has changed. RTs still have power to manipulate their students. It's a shame really. There is nothing wrong with the Dharma that is taught in the NKT (except for Shugden). If you take away the cult like tactics that are used the NKT might actually be a great tradition to practice with.

I'm aware other traditions have had their fair share of scandals. What sets the NKT apart is the NKT claimed to be pure without fault. They do seem to be saying different these days. But before I left two years ago I was taught KG was a Buddha, not only him but Gen-la Samden as well. Imagine my surprise when I found out a Buddha was having sex. He was far from perfect. He was nothing more than human. Yet after the scandal broke we where all lied to and told Samden went into retreat. It was the NKTs first attempt at damage control. Then came more teachers to break their vow of celibacy. Just like when the scandal broke out with Neil Elliot the NKT all the sudden decided to protest HH the Dalai Lama. It was the same with Samden. The NKT only seem to want to protest HH when they need to change the focus from themselves in times of scandal. It seems you believe KG knew nothing about what was taking place with Samden and his RT's. KG was well aware of these teachers. People had reported to him what was taking place and he did nothing. It wasn't until they couldn't keep Samden's sexual escapes a secret no more that KG sent him into "retreat". If you choose to believe otherwise then you are being naive.

I don't want to debate Shugden because he really isn't the big reason the NKT is a cult. If people want to worship Shugden that is their choice. That is their freedom of religion. If people want nothing to do with him fearing he is a spirit, that is their freedom of religion. If you feel discriminated against believe me I can understand. Shugden was my favorite "Buddha" at one time, and it hurt when people supposedly discriminated against me. I now know it had more to do with fear then it did with discrimination. Shugden has hurt a lot of people. I used to manifest as him and it left me very sick. I didn't learn to much later when Ryan Engen told me Shugden should never be manifested that I was doing something dangerous. I saw no harm in manifesting as him since he is a "Buddha". According to Ryan KG has not taught Shugdens complete practice in the west. So tell me Caz why is that? If you take a look at the people who have practiced Dolgyal you will see countless who have fallen ill. Even Pabongka loved the fact Shugden had the power to kill Gelugpas who dared to study anything Nyingma. A supposedly holy main liked it when people died. Tell me why is that? You would think a holy being like Shugden would put love in his followers hearts, not hate. Please try to understand when it seems people are discriminating against you they may actually have a deep fear of being exposed to something harmful. I for one want nothing to do with Shugden. No more than I want to be exposed to fire.

Take care,
David

[Eternal Spirit]

Dear Clw Uk, Caz Namyawn & All

The Eternal Spirit is luminous, pure, free & boundless (please see my avatar).

To the Eternal Spirit, this world is merely an illusory illusion, of little substance.

The Eternal Spirit rejoices in itself. The Eternal Spiritual is the supreme source of Spiritual Sustainence.

To love (metta) or hate a useless unbeneficial insubstantial illusion is also an illusion.

You will find truth and salvation in the radiance, clarity and eternal satisfaction of the Eternal Spirit.

In the Dhammapada, the Buddha said of the Eternal Spirit:

205. Having savored the taste of solitude and peace (of Nibbana), pain-free and stainless he becomes, drinking deep the taste of the bliss of the Truth.

May all beings drink deep the taste and satisfaction of the Eternal Spirit.

[Eternal Spirit]

Dear Clw Uk, Caz Namyawn, Ngawang Drolma & All

Below are four meditation objects, namely, The Eternal Samsaric Habit, The Eternal Holy Guru, The Eternal Gentleness of Spirit & The Eternal Radiance of Spirit.

Please meditate upon these four objects of the Gradual Path until The Eternal Spirit illuminates in the mind.



May all beings drink deep the taste and satisfaction of the Eternal Spirit.

[thornbush]

Prajna Paramita or Panna Parami is kool

[Dazzle]

.




Eternal Spirit is cool

[vinodh]

Prajna Paramita or Panna Parami is kool

She ought to be

For, Bhagavatī is the Sarva-Buddha-Mātā

May the Bhagavatī bless us with Perfection of Wisdom

Oṁ Namo Bhagavatyai Prajñāpāramitāyai

[Luke]

Mahakala is COOL! (I thought I'd post the image of a Dharma protector to keep us all safe.)

[Scylla]

Hi, so far I've only posted to introduce myself. I've been looking for a more structured learning opportunity and I've found a center which is fairly convenient, as well as offering foundation classes which I would like. It is in the New Kadampa Tradition. I don't see it listed here on the board as one of the lineages. I am curious about it. Can anyone tell me anything about this tradition?

Thank you,

[Chaz]

Hi,

If you didn't read the TOS yet you should.

Discussion of The Tradition That Cannot Be Named is something that isn't allowed for reasons I don't want to go into.

I'd suggest you paddle on over to the FreeSangha forum and pose your question there. They have no such prohibition and your likely to get fair and balanced response from those guys.

[plwk]

viewtopic.php?f=9&t=20
4. Discussion of Controversial Practices and Traditions
In light of certain contentious practices and traditions that exist within the scope of Vajrayana Buddhism, the Dharma Wheel website will abide by instructions given to practitioners by the Dalai Lama and the Ganden Tri Rinpoche (the head of the Gelug lineage) in regards to discussion of controversial issues, practices, and images. For more information on these instructions, please refer to this synopsis and collection of advice from important lamas, or the Dalai Lama's words on this matter. As explained in this informative talk from Lama Yeshe, there are many teachers who have advised in this way before the Dalai Lama.
At this time references to the New Kadampa Tradition are not appropriate for the reasons explained in the links provided. This is because of New Kadampa Tradition's association with and propagation of the controversial Shugden practice. Though references to the Shugden affair and the New Kadampa Tradition are not appropriate for posting at this time, all practitioners are welcome at Dharma Wheel.
Additionally, though the Terms of Service provide specific guidelines surrounding the New Kadampa Tradition, Dharma Wheel volunteer staff will have the right amend or delete any post which they judge may lead to disharmony including topics and organizations they deem to be likely to do so.

Otherwise...have a cup of tea....

[Scylla]

Now that you mention it, I DO recall seeing that, but I didn't remember. I have no wish to cause disharmony. Thank you,

[catmoon]

Now that you mention it, I DO recall seeing that, but I didn't remember. I have no wish to cause disharmony. Thank you,

OTOH it is not unknown for some people, such as yours truly, to follow the Dalai Lama but attend sanghas of the Tradition That Makes People Nervous. In my case it simply the difference between a forty-mile round trip or a four-block round trip that tipped the scales.

Since I stand with one foot in each camp, I might (might, mind you) have a balanced opinion, and I would be willing to discuss it in personal messages.

[Heruka]

there are bigger more silent low key rinpoche, gyalpo spirit worshipers out there, than the kelsangs nkt.

[Will]

Hi,

If you didn't read the TOS yet you should.

Discussion of The Tradition That Cannot Be Named is something that isn't allowed for reasons I don't want to go into.

I'd suggest you paddle on over to the FreeSangha forum and pose your question there. They have no such prohibition and your likely to get fair and balanced response from those guys.

"fair and balanced" like Fox News? FreeSangha does not permit much criticism of NKT, but does encourage gallons of posts praising it.

[Ngawang Drolma]

Hi folks,

Sorry, this subject isn't appropriate at this site. I'd like to let the thread sit for reference but I'm locking it.

Thanks!
Laura

[dorje.neljorma]

Caz,

Even Pabongka loved the fact Shugden had the power to kill Gelugpas who dared to study anything Nyingma. A supposedly holy main liked it when people died. Tell me why is that? You would think a holy being like Shugden would put love in his followers hearts, not hate. Please try to understand when it seems people are discriminating against you they may actually have a deep fear of being exposed to something harmful.
David

Thanks for sharing your experiences about the NKT. They have really shed some more light about it.
However, do you have any reference for the above statement about Kyabje Pabongkha Rinpoche?
Please do not be so quick to criticize Je Pabongkha, as many Gelugpas lineages come through Pabongkha, and many Gelugpas are practising sadhanas/six session yoga written by Pabongkha himself.

Thanks,

[catmoon]

Having recently been a participant in a knockdown dragout fight on NKT issues, I offer a warning.

There is a heavy cost associated with these fights. Win or lose, participating will drain out compassion like a vampire. Afterwards, expect it to take at least a month to get back to where you were before.

[BFS]

I do not see possible benefits in having this discussion, and so see no wisdom in the unlocking of this thread. Of course, everyone must do as they please. I do have a choice about what to do with my time, where and how I spend it.

Take care, everyone.

[Will]

Re-lock it and keep it closed. The topic is a literary latrine, possessing a foul and befouling odor & presence.