Atomic/Rainbow Body

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Re: Atomic/Rainbow Body

Postby Malcolm » Tue Aug 21, 2012 3:33 pm

Jeff wrote:No offense taken. I think you will find the terms/experiences that I am describing are part of many paths.


There are experiences in the Dzoghen path that are shared. There are experiences in the Dzogchen path that are unique to that path. Rainbow body comes from the latter experiences, and not the former.
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Re: Atomic/Rainbow Body

Postby Jeff » Tue Aug 21, 2012 4:31 pm

Malcolm wrote:
Jeff wrote:No offense taken. I think you will find the terms/experiences that I am describing are part of many paths.


There are experiences in the Dzoghen path that are shared. There are experiences in the Dzogchen path that are unique to that path. Rainbow body comes from the latter experiences, and not the former.


That may well be true. Those are the differences that I have looking for.

:smile:
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Re: Atomic/Rainbow Body

Postby Malcolm » Tue Aug 21, 2012 4:42 pm

Jeff wrote:
Malcolm wrote:
Jeff wrote:No offense taken. I think you will find the terms/experiences that I am describing are part of many paths.


There are experiences in the Dzoghen path that are shared. There are experiences in the Dzogchen path that are unique to that path. Rainbow body comes from the latter experiences, and not the former.


That may well be true. Those are the differences that I have looking for.



Well, then, you need to find a Dzogchen master in whom you have faith, recieve transmission and do whatever he or she says.

M
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http://www.bhaisajya.guru
http://atikosha.org
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔

Though there are infinite liberating gateways of Dharma,
there are none not included in the dimension of the knowledge of the Great Perfection.

-- Buddha Samantabhadri
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Re: Atomic/Rainbow Body

Postby Jeff » Tue Aug 21, 2012 5:31 pm

Malcolm wrote:
Jeff wrote:
Malcolm wrote:There are experiences in the Dzoghen path that are shared. There are experiences in the Dzogchen path that are unique to that path. Rainbow body comes from the latter experiences, and not the former.


That may well be true. Those are the differences that I have looking for.



Well, then, you need to find a Dzogchen master in whom you have faith, recieve transmission and do whatever he or she says.

M


Sounds like a plan. :smile:
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Re: Atomic/Rainbow Body

Postby muni » Wed Aug 22, 2012 8:47 am

Jeff wrote:[ As you said above, all of the streams (of consciousness/awareness) come back to the heart.

:smile:


"Awareness back to the "heart". Oh! :smile:

Then this i leave here : "...have devotion to enlightened beings and compassion for unenlightened beings. Devotion and compassion are a universal panacea, the single sufficient technique. A famous quote says, 'In the moment of love, the nature of emptiness dawns nakedly'. In addition, there are practices called the development and completion stages. All these practices facilitate nondistraction".
http://www.scribd.com/doc/27626668/Ulti ... n-Rinpoche

Furthermore Malcolm mentioned a master. Yes.

:anjali: All the best!
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Re: Atomic/Rainbow Body

Postby Sönam » Wed Aug 22, 2012 9:05 am

muni wrote:
Jeff wrote:[ As you said above, all of the streams (of consciousness/awareness) come back to the heart.

:smile:


"Awareness back to the "heart". Oh! :smile:



One may also say ... all of the streams spread out from the heart. :smile:

Sönam
By understanding everything you perceive from the perspective of the view, you are freed from the constraints of philosophical beliefs.
By understanding that any and all mental activity is meditation, you are freed from arbitrary divisions between formal sessions and postmeditation activity.
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Re: Atomic/Rainbow Body

Postby Jeff » Wed Aug 22, 2012 2:28 pm

muni wrote:
Jeff wrote:[ As you said above, all of the streams (of consciousness/awareness) come back to the heart.

:smile:


"Awareness back to the "heart". Oh! :smile:

Then this i leave here : "...have devotion to enlightened beings and compassion for unenlightened beings. Devotion and compassion are a universal panacea, the single sufficient technique. A famous quote says, 'In the moment of love, the nature of emptiness dawns nakedly'. In addition, there are practices called the development and completion stages. All these practices facilitate nondistraction".
http://www.scribd.com/doc/27626668/Ulti ... n-Rinpoche

Furthermore Malcolm mentioned a master. Yes.

:anjali: All the best!


Love is the nature of emptiness. :smile:
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Re: Atomic/Rainbow Body

Postby Jeff » Wed Aug 22, 2012 2:30 pm

Sönam wrote:
muni wrote:
Jeff wrote:[ As you said above, all of the streams (of consciousness/awareness) come back to the heart.

:smile:


"Awareness back to the "heart". Oh! :smile:



One may also say ... all of the streams spread out from the heart. :smile:

Sönam


Very true. :smile:

In the end... There is no in and out... Only heart as what is...

:smile:
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Re: Atomic/Rainbow Body

Postby muni » Wed Aug 22, 2012 2:52 pm

:smile: :anjali:
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Re: Atomic/Rainbow Body

Postby Jeff » Wed Aug 22, 2012 4:56 pm

muni wrote:The waxing bodhichitta moon
that causes to swell the joyful ocean
of altruistic intentions and so on
puts even the cooling nighttime moon to shame.

This bodhichitta that serves as a sword
to cut the shoots of the afflictions
is the weapon for the protection
of all wandering beings.
:


Beautiful words...

Or, one could say... Always seems to be more obstructions/issues to clear.

:smile:
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Re: Atomic/Rainbow Body

Postby pueraeternus » Wed Aug 22, 2012 6:32 pm

rainbowbodynyancat.gif
rainbowbodynyancat.gif (403.36 KiB) Viewed 1238 times
If you believe certain words, you believe their hidden arguments. When you believe something is right or wrong, true of false, you believe the assumptions in the words which express the arguments. Such assumptions are often full of holes, but remain most precious to the convinced.

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Re: Atomic/Rainbow Body

Postby asunthatneversets » Wed Aug 22, 2012 7:28 pm

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Re: Atomic/Rainbow Body

Postby byamspa » Thu Aug 23, 2012 12:10 am

pueraeternus wrote:
rainbowbodynyancat.gif


Love NyanCat!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QH2-TGUlwu4
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Re: Atomic/Rainbow Body

Postby Jeff » Thu Aug 23, 2012 1:59 pm

SSJ3Gogeta wrote:
Jeff wrote:Could you describe how it would be different? Does not a senior student feel light/divine love in the presence of someone who has attained Rigpa? (Divine love "feels" more like a combination of "peace" and "joy" than what we normally describe as romantic love.)

:smile:



Divine love?

Dzogchen is nothing like this. Its not like New Age love and light B.S.


From a post by muni...

Tibetan teacher Tsoknyi Rinpoche describes the layers of self that cover over our "essence love," and the way that mindfulness reconnects us to our true nature.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dmEce-DxTYc
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Re: Atomic/Rainbow Body

Postby Malcolm » Thu Aug 23, 2012 2:16 pm

Jeff wrote:
SSJ3Gogeta wrote:
Jeff wrote:Could you describe how it would be different? Does not a senior student feel light/divine love in the presence of someone who has attained Rigpa? (Divine love "feels" more like a combination of "peace" and "joy" than what we normally describe as romantic love.)

:smile:



Divine love?

Dzogchen is nothing like this. Its not like New Age love and light B.S.


From a post by muni...

Tibetan teacher Tsoknyi Rinpoche describes the layers of self that cover over our "essence love," and the way that mindfulness reconnects us to our true nature.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dmEce-DxTYc


But he is not really talking about Dzogchen. What he is describing is from a common Mahāyan̄a point of view.

The Dzogchen approach to developing compassion is not to cultivate compassion through mindfulness and so on, observing how one feels, etc. The Dzogchen approach is based on discovering one's real nature. Once that is discovered, it is impossible not to have compassion for all sentient beings who are ignorant of their real nature -- that is "essencelove".

However, SSJ3 is correct: Dzogchen is not connected with so called New age love and light trips.
http://www.bhaisajya.net
http://www.bhaisajya.guru
http://atikosha.org
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔

Though there are infinite liberating gateways of Dharma,
there are none not included in the dimension of the knowledge of the Great Perfection.

-- Buddha Samantabhadri
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Re: Atomic/Rainbow Body

Postby Jeff » Thu Aug 23, 2012 2:47 pm

Malcolm wrote:
Jeff wrote:
SSJ3Gogeta wrote:
Divine love?

Dzogchen is nothing like this. Its not like New Age love and light B.S.


From a post by muni...

Tibetan teacher Tsoknyi Rinpoche describes the layers of self that cover over our "essence love," and the way that mindfulness reconnects us to our true nature.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dmEce-DxTYc


But he is not really talking about Dzogchen. What he is describing is from a common Mahāyan̄a point of view.

The Dzogchen approach to developing compassion is not to cultivate compassion through mindfulness and so on, observing how one feels, etc. The Dzogchen approach is based on discovering one's real nature. Once that is discovered, it is impossible not to have compassion for all sentient beings who are ignorant of their real nature -- that is "essencelove".

However, SSJ3 is correct: Dzogchen is not connected with so called New age love and light trips.


I understood his point in the lecture to be focused on mindfulness. Peace/love/compassion was just an expression of the flavor or "feel" of the experience of mindfulness. As he said... The peaceful feeling of a comfortable easy chair at the end of a day.

What words would you (or anyone else) use to describe the "feeling" of mindfulness from a Dzogchen perspective?

:smile:
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Re: Atomic/Rainbow Body

Postby Malcolm » Thu Aug 23, 2012 2:59 pm

Jeff wrote:
What words would you (or anyone else) use to describe the "feeling" of mindfulness from a Dzogchen perspective?


Mindfulness is just mindfulness -- it simply means that you know what you are doing when you are doing. For example, when typing a post, you know you are typing a post -- it is not different than any other form of mindfulness. The caveat only is that if you are a Dzogchen practitioner, than part of your mindfulness is informed by your discovery of your real nature.

Otherwise, there is no genuinely special form of mindfulness called "Dzogchen mindfulness".
http://www.bhaisajya.net
http://www.bhaisajya.guru
http://atikosha.org
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔

Though there are infinite liberating gateways of Dharma,
there are none not included in the dimension of the knowledge of the Great Perfection.

-- Buddha Samantabhadri
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Re: Atomic/Rainbow Body

Postby Jeff » Thu Aug 23, 2012 3:06 pm

Malcolm wrote:
Jeff wrote:
What words would you (or anyone else) use to describe the "feeling" of mindfulness from a Dzogchen perspective?


Mindfulness is just mindfulness -- it simply means that you know what you are doing when you are doing. For example, when typing a post, you know you are typing a post -- it is not different than any other form of mindfulness. The caveat only is that if you are a Dzogchen practitioner, than part of your mindfulness is informed by your discovery of your real nature.

Otherwise, there is no genuinely special form of mindfulness called "Dzogchen mindfulness".


I agree that mindfulness is just mindfulness (when residing in mindfulness) and everything just feels "normal".

But, when for the first time experiencing (slipping into) mindfulness... Was there no "peaceful" feel of that "easy chair"? My experience has been a "growth" in being able to stay mindful (focused on the moment).

:smile:
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Re: Atomic/Rainbow Body

Postby Malcolm » Thu Aug 23, 2012 3:43 pm

Jeff wrote:
Malcolm wrote:
Jeff wrote:
What words would you (or anyone else) use to describe the "feeling" of mindfulness from a Dzogchen perspective?


Mindfulness is just mindfulness -- it simply means that you know what you are doing when you are doing. For example, when typing a post, you know you are typing a post -- it is not different than any other form of mindfulness. The caveat only is that if you are a Dzogchen practitioner, than part of your mindfulness is informed by your discovery of your real nature.

Otherwise, there is no genuinely special form of mindfulness called "Dzogchen mindfulness".


I agree that mindfulness is just mindfulness (when residing in mindfulness) and everything just feels "normal".

But, when for the first time experiencing (slipping into) mindfulness... Was there no "peaceful" feel of that "easy chair"? My experience has been a "growth" in being able to stay mindful (focused on the moment).

:smile:


I suppose you could say there is a kind of a flowing experience.
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http://www.bhaisajya.guru
http://atikosha.org
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔

Though there are infinite liberating gateways of Dharma,
there are none not included in the dimension of the knowledge of the Great Perfection.

-- Buddha Samantabhadri
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Re: Atomic/Rainbow Body

Postby oushi » Thu Aug 23, 2012 4:04 pm

Maybe I'm wrong here, or I categorize my experience wrongly, but for me, mindfulness has no special role at all. When I say mindfulness I mean paying attention, being focused. I would even say that it's all about dropping this kind of behavior. When one does it, he is completely aware of reality, but he doesn't know what he is doing, and as such, there is no desire to manipulate and change conditions.
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