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What is Wrong with Buddha Nature - Page 3 - Dhamma Wheel

What is Wrong with Buddha Nature

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths. What can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
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kirk5a
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Re: What is Wrong with Buddha Nature

Postby kirk5a » Thu Mar 17, 2011 4:28 pm

"When one thing is practiced & pursued, ignorance is abandoned, clear knowing arises, the conceit 'I am' is abandoned, latent tendencies are uprooted, fetters are abandoned. Which one thing? Mindfulness immersed in the body." -AN 1.230

PeterB
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Re: What is Wrong with Buddha Nature

Postby PeterB » Thu Mar 17, 2011 4:39 pm

Yes its different. He is talking about attainment, not an a priori universal state.

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kirk5a
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Re: What is Wrong with Buddha Nature

Postby kirk5a » Thu Mar 17, 2011 5:07 pm

"When one thing is practiced & pursued, ignorance is abandoned, clear knowing arises, the conceit 'I am' is abandoned, latent tendencies are uprooted, fetters are abandoned. Which one thing? Mindfulness immersed in the body." -AN 1.230

PeterB
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Re: What is Wrong with Buddha Nature

Postby PeterB » Thu Mar 17, 2011 5:15 pm

If someone talks about attaining any permanent state, that is pernicious .
According to the Theravada.
What is attained is a freedom from such views.

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Lazy_eye
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Re: What is Wrong with Buddha Nature

Postby Lazy_eye » Thu Mar 17, 2011 5:25 pm


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kirk5a
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Re: What is Wrong with Buddha Nature

Postby kirk5a » Thu Mar 17, 2011 6:32 pm

"When one thing is practiced & pursued, ignorance is abandoned, clear knowing arises, the conceit 'I am' is abandoned, latent tendencies are uprooted, fetters are abandoned. Which one thing? Mindfulness immersed in the body." -AN 1.230

PeterB
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Re: What is Wrong with Buddha Nature

Postby PeterB » Thu Mar 17, 2011 7:00 pm

Why are you asking questions that you probably know the answers to kirk5a ? Are you bored ?

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kirk5a
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Re: What is Wrong with Buddha Nature

Postby kirk5a » Thu Mar 17, 2011 7:12 pm

"When one thing is practiced & pursued, ignorance is abandoned, clear knowing arises, the conceit 'I am' is abandoned, latent tendencies are uprooted, fetters are abandoned. Which one thing? Mindfulness immersed in the body." -AN 1.230

PeterB
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Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2009 12:35 pm

Re: What is Wrong with Buddha Nature

Postby PeterB » Thu Mar 17, 2011 7:25 pm

"If you got to ask that lady, you shouldnt be messing with all this ".

Fats Waller to a woman who asked him to define "swing "....

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Kusala
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Re: What is Wrong with Buddha Nature

Postby Kusala » Fri Mar 18, 2011 1:59 am

Image

"He, the Blessed One, is indeed the Noble Lord, the Perfectly Enlightened One;
He is impeccable in conduct and understanding, the Serene One, the Knower of the Worlds;
He trains perfectly those who wish to be trained; he is Teacher of gods and men; he is Awake and Holy. "

--------------------------------------------
"The Dhamma is well-expounded by the Blessed One,
Apparent here and now, timeless, encouraging investigation,
Leading to liberation, to be experienced individually by the wise. "

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Nibbida
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Re: What is Wrong with Buddha Nature

Postby Nibbida » Fri Mar 18, 2011 3:46 am


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ground
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Re: What is Wrong with Buddha Nature

Postby ground » Fri Mar 18, 2011 4:08 am


PeterB
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Re: What is Wrong with Buddha Nature

Postby PeterB » Fri Mar 18, 2011 9:45 am


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Ben
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Re: What is Wrong with Buddha Nature

Postby Ben » Fri Mar 18, 2011 9:58 am

“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

(Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • •

e: [email protected]..

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Dan74
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Re: What is Wrong with Buddha Nature

Postby Dan74 » Fri Mar 18, 2011 10:04 am

It's been said before - it has been used synonymously in various Mahayana schools with dependent origination, emptiness, unborn, unconditioned, the potentiality for awakening, the luminous mind free from defilements, freedom from delusion, unbinding and the liberated mind being no different to the mind of the Buddha. It is not a "thingie" in most treatments, it is simply a pointer to awakening. It is what happens when the defilements, obscurations and ignorance are removed.

I don't think it is reasonable to declare every phrase and device used by a teacher heretical if it is not found verbatum in the Canon. What matters is the import of the teaching, what it is pointing towards. Just like intention with sila, so it is with the teachings - if they point towards liberation from delusion, they are Dhamma.

Of course not being liberated, we do have a tendency to cling to words - make a fetish of the raft rather than use it for its intended purpose. I don't recall my teacher use Buddha nature in her teachings, but for other teachers and students it may be appropriate.
_/|\_

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Ben
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Location: kanamaluka

Re: What is Wrong with Buddha Nature

Postby Ben » Fri Mar 18, 2011 10:12 am

“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

(Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • •

e: [email protected]..

PeterB
Posts: 3909
Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2009 12:35 pm

Re: What is Wrong with Buddha Nature

Postby PeterB » Fri Mar 18, 2011 10:16 am


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Dan74
Posts: 3012
Joined: Sun Mar 01, 2009 11:12 pm

Re: What is Wrong with Buddha Nature

Postby Dan74 » Fri Mar 18, 2011 10:41 am

Last edited by Dan74 on Fri Mar 18, 2011 10:52 am, edited 1 time in total.
_/|\_

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Ben
Posts: 18442
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 12:49 am
Location: kanamaluka

Re: What is Wrong with Buddha Nature

Postby Ben » Fri Mar 18, 2011 10:50 am

“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

(Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • •

e: [email protected]..

PeterB
Posts: 3909
Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2009 12:35 pm

Re: What is Wrong with Buddha Nature

Postby PeterB » Fri Mar 18, 2011 11:15 am

I used the word pernicious advisedly.
The concept of Buddha Dhatu is fundamentally at odds with the Buddhas teaching of Dependant Origination.
"Buddha Dhatu" represents a failure of nerve. A stepping back from the truly radical uncompromising teaching of Shakyamuni Buddha towards a fudge, a restatement of Vedic atmanic doctrine.
It fundamentally obscures what the Buddha is saying at the most basic level.
THIS is the reason for Thannisaro (and others ) concern. And I hope no one will think that Thannisaro's views on this issue are untypical..or "western". What he is saying vis a vis " Buddha Nature " is absolutely mainstream Theravada.
It leads to a number of distortions of the Buddhas Dhamma. Distortions which can be seen on a regular basis on this forum from those who seek to absorb the Theravada into a kind of Pan Buddhism which in the end turns out to be not different from the Mahayana.

Stepping back from the radical nature of the Pali Canon has a number of observable side effects in its adherents.
One of which for a minority is a need to frequent Theravadin forums like a hungry ghost, or like Kathy in Wuthering Heights, always peering through the window from the outside......
Personally I have more respect for those like, (fill in your own choice of names ) ........ ......... who say unambiguously that the Theravada is incomplete, partial, for beginners.
I dont accept it for one moment. But it is honest. It is real. It is fullbloodied.


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