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the great Nibbana = annihilation, eternal, or something else thread - Page 30 - Dhamma Wheel

the great Nibbana = annihilation, eternal, or something else thread

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
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kirk5a
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Re: Is the result of Parinibbana Annihilation?

Postby kirk5a » Tue Mar 15, 2011 11:34 pm

"When one thing is practiced & pursued, ignorance is abandoned, clear knowing arises, the conceit 'I am' is abandoned, latent tendencies are uprooted, fetters are abandoned. Which one thing? Mindfulness immersed in the body." -AN 1.230

rowyourboat
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Re: Is the result of Parinibbana Annihilation?

Postby rowyourboat » Thu Mar 17, 2011 2:16 pm

Hi Kirk,

The difficulty of anyone who has seen and understood that there is only the five aggregates, through vipassana, is to communicate that insight (ie that way of 'seeing') to someone who hasn't. This ultimate reality/ conventional reality dichotomy is a hurdle in developing a Right view before the start of vipassana meditation. It is litterally the difference between seeing actors on a tv screen vs seeing the pixels of the screen which make up those 'actors', who don't ultimately exist.

So sometime to communicate the deep dhamma the Buddha has to use conventional terminology sometimes. Why should the Tathagata be hard to see? The conventional Tathagata is very easy to see. What is hard to see is the aggregates that we 'erroneously' label as the tathagatha. The pixels do exist, but they are deep and hard to see. Hope that makes some sense.

With metta

Matheesha
With Metta

Karuna
Mudita
& Upekkha

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kirk5a
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Re: Is the result of Parinibbana Annihilation?

Postby kirk5a » Thu Mar 17, 2011 6:53 pm

"When one thing is practiced & pursued, ignorance is abandoned, clear knowing arises, the conceit 'I am' is abandoned, latent tendencies are uprooted, fetters are abandoned. Which one thing? Mindfulness immersed in the body." -AN 1.230

Kenshou
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Re: Is the result of Parinibbana Annihilation?

Postby Kenshou » Thu Mar 17, 2011 7:22 pm

No, that would require reading that passage as if the Tathagata was to be taken as the aggregates, which we know is incorrect.

Rather it is the very fact that the/a Tathagata is hard to fathom that we are having this discussion in the first place, the thing being that all "fathomings" will be incorrect since beyond conventional convenience the designation "tathagata" or "arahant" is no longer applicable.

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kirk5a
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Re: Is the result of Parinibbana Annihilation?

Postby kirk5a » Thu Mar 17, 2011 8:54 pm

"When one thing is practiced & pursued, ignorance is abandoned, clear knowing arises, the conceit 'I am' is abandoned, latent tendencies are uprooted, fetters are abandoned. Which one thing? Mindfulness immersed in the body." -AN 1.230

darvki
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Re: Is the result of Parinibbana Annihilation?

Postby darvki » Fri Mar 18, 2011 1:47 am


Kenshou
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Re: Is the result of Parinibbana Annihilation?

Postby Kenshou » Fri Mar 18, 2011 2:02 am


darvki
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Re: Is the result of Parinibbana Annihilation?

Postby darvki » Fri Mar 18, 2011 2:21 am


rowyourboat
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Re: Is the result of Parinibbana Annihilation?

Postby rowyourboat » Fri Mar 18, 2011 11:07 am

With Metta

Karuna
Mudita
& Upekkha

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Wizard in the Forest
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the great Nibbana = annihilation, eternal, or something else thread

Postby Wizard in the Forest » Sat Mar 19, 2011 5:45 am

If Nibbana is unconditioned is it permanent?
"One is not born a woman, but becomes one."- Simone de Beauvoir

darvki
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Re: Nibbana permanent or impermanent?

Postby darvki » Sat Mar 19, 2011 5:57 am

It isn't any "thing" to be permanent or impermanent so I think the question is invalid.

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Ben
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Re: Nibbana permanent or impermanent?

Postby Ben » Sat Mar 19, 2011 5:59 am

Dear WITF

Nibbana being unconditioned it is beyond the realm of dukkha and anicca. As a dhamma, it remains anatta. Nibbana being unconditioned it is beyond comprehension of the conditioned mind.
With great respect to your line of enquiry I recommend that you concentrate on that which is germane to liberation. Life being fickle, it can end at any time.
May you realize Nibbana, yourself, in this life.
kind regards

Ben
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

(Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • •

e: [email protected]..

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Bhikkhu Pesala
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Re: Nibbana permanent or impermanent?

Postby Bhikkhu Pesala » Sat Mar 19, 2011 8:51 am

I think its a valid question, albeit not a very fruitful one.
means permanent, stable, fixed, reliable, sure. The Buddha has pointed out the path to attain the unborn, unconditioned, and permanent nibbāna.

Dhuvagāmin leading to permanence, i. e. Nibbāna S iv.370.
• • • • (Upasampadā: 24th June, 1979)

Akuma
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Re: Nibbana permanent or impermanent?

Postby Akuma » Sat Mar 19, 2011 10:56 am


pulga
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Re: Is the result of Parinibbana Annihilation?

Postby pulga » Sat Mar 19, 2011 1:35 pm


meindzai
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Re: Nibbana permanent or impermanent?

Postby meindzai » Sat Mar 19, 2011 7:59 pm

I tend to think of it as "not-impermanent" but try not to bother with any conception beyond that. I believe in Abhidhamma it is considered permanent.

-M

Parth
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Re: Nibbana permanent or impermanent?

Postby Parth » Sun Mar 20, 2011 6:27 pm

Such questions need to be practised for (i.e. practising vipassana and other parts of the noble eight fold path), everything else is a worthless speculation. Lets not waste time there.

Metta

Parth

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dharmaamrita
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Re: Is the result of Parinibbana Annihilation?

Postby dharmaamrita » Sun May 01, 2011 8:02 am

i think, this the most 'eye-opening' topics of the Buddha. The question of annata(anatma), No-self. The question of annhilation arises due to our clinging of the concept of self. But to a Tathagata it does not apply because the arahant only sees cause and effect in this sea of impermanence. There is no self. Our form gets broken down and converted to something else. The hydrogen, carbon atoms that make your body was once the atoms of maybe a star or a plant. The feelings are there dependent on something. So are perceptions, sankharas and vinnana(vijnana or consciousness). This is an aggregate of these 5 things. It is a changing impermanent aggregate. The arahant aware of this sees no self, thus the concept of annhilation does not apply. Metta...and may Sati be tirelessly awake

rowyourboat
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Location: London, UK

Re: Is the result of Parinibbana Annihilation?

Postby rowyourboat » Sun May 01, 2011 8:13 am

With Metta

Karuna
Mudita
& Upekkha

rowyourboat
Posts: 1952
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2009 5:29 pm
Location: London, UK

Re: Is the result of Parinibbana Annihilation?

Postby rowyourboat » Sun May 01, 2011 8:15 am

With Metta

Karuna
Mudita
& Upekkha


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