Moderator: Tibetan Buddhism moderators
rob h wrote:Hi there,
I've never been in contact with any Tibetan Buddhists before, but have felt a connection to Vajrayogini for a number of years now. I could try and explain but it's probably more complicated than I realise and could take a while, so I'll just skip that part!
So I know that as a Tibetan Buddhist, you need an empowerment to work with her. I'm fine with that, but what I'm wondering is, as a person who's meditated on and off for over a decade, and who now sees meditation as central to health, in what ways could I work with Vajrayogini without an empowerment?
And are there any people throughout history that are known to have been inspired by, or to have worked with Vajrayogini, without being a Tibetan Buddhist/having had an empowerment to do her rituals?
Final question : do you think that someone with the right state of mind can work with Vajrayogini on a decent enough level without an empowerment? Or do you think it's impossible? Personally I think it's possible, (not for me right now though! I don't think my mind is anywhere near the right state.) but I'm wondering what some of you think.
I just kind of think that, and I'm saying this with respect and without wanting to offend, Tibetan Buddhists see themselves as kind of the gateway to being able to work with her, and that without working with them it's not possible, and I think that's a frustrating and limited view of things, that's all. I mean if Vajrayogini herself wanted to work with someone, or to inspire them, that's up to her, right?
Again, with respect, and thanks if anyone can help,
SSJ3Gogeta wrote:post your state or country, so that everyone can give you recommendations
Virgo wrote:There are some Nyingma ngondros where you arise as VY during the Guru Yoga section.
In Tibetan Buddhism, empowerments are typically given in response to a request for those empowerments. So you don't have to wait around until you see a Vajrayogini empowerment being given. You can make a sincere request to a Lama that He/She bestow that empowerment. That's not to say that He or She will automatically and immediately grant your request. You may be told that you have to complete certain preliminaries first, or you may be told that certain circumstances have to come together first. But, nothing ventured, nothing gained.
Good luck and best wishes.
rob h wrote:Hi again, and thanks for the replies!
I should've added it to the first post really, but yeah just before I registered here I sent a message to Lama Jampa Thaye via Dechen.org asking about how I'd go about getting a Vajrayogini empowerment, so am just waiting to hear back from him hopefully. At the same time though it just seems like it could take quite a while before that could happen if it's possible, and leaves me kind of frustrated in the meantime. Saying that though, the meditation I usually do is Zen basically, and I can just keep up with that for now as it's worked well enough for me for quite a while.
Will hopefully get back to you and let you know how things work out anyway, and thanks again for the responses.
ngodrup wrote:I'd be curious to know what you mean by "the meditation I usually do is Zen basically." The Vajrayana is like Zen as a form of Buddhism
that you either practice or don't. So if you have a Zen teacher, attend a Zendo, and are following that training you are practicing Zen.,
The Vajrayana similarly requires a teacher who gives initiation, a student who receives it, then follows through with that practice.
There is no obstacle to practicing with both systems, each can support the other.
Anyway, meet a qualified Lama, get the empowerment, do as the Lama says.
rob h wrote:I was just coming back here to ask if anyone is with Lama Jampa Thaye, because I've messaged the site twice now but haven't had any response, so am a bit confused there. If he's unlikely to give an empowerment for Vajrayogini though there's probably no point in carrying on trying to contact him.