Who is ngagpa?

[byamspa]

Yes, sure. You know any such community?

/magnus

I don't mean like place with a gate and land, I mean a society of practitioners who live near each other.

which could have a gate...and be on some land somewhere <evil grin>

[byamspa]

*shrug*. I was told to wear mine in practice situations, so i try to do that as practical. If yours was causing problems, I can see that it would be just as practical to put it aside too.

It might slightly dharma-psycho-somatic or something, but i think it helps me focus on what im doing when i wear it.

I merely keep my hair long. You would just think I was some hippy. I don't wear any religion clothing of any kind. It is not necessary for me.

we all do what we gotta do. i have my instructions that i follow to the best of my ability.

the rest is just distraction.

[Malcolm]

*shrug*. I was told to wear mine in practice situations, so i try to do that as practical. If yours was causing problems, I can see that it would be just as practical to put it aside too.

It might slightly dharma-psycho-somatic or something, but i think it helps me focus on what im doing when i wear it.

I merely keep my hair long. You would just think I was some hippy. I don't wear any religion clothing of any kind. It is not necessary for me.

we all do what we gotta do. i have my instructions that i follow to the best of my ability.
.

Of course. Sometimes if it is cold, I might use a blanket. Then I kind of look like a fat blond guy wearing a native blanket.

[heart]

Yes, sure. You know any such community?

/magnus

I don't mean like place with a gate and land, I mean a society of practitioners who live near each other.

Me too.

/magnus

[heart]

Of course. Sometimes if it is cold, I might use a blanket. Then I kind of look like a fat blond guy wearing a native blanket.

fat blond and hairy guy wearing a native blanket or the fat, blond hippie in the poncho

/magnus

[pemachophel]

Malcolm's point that a real ngakpa is someone who has real power over a mantra is well taken. Anyone can call him- or herself a ngakpa/ngakmo and wear ngakpa robes, but if they do not have power over at least one mantra, that title is a hollow label. Lama Dawa Choddak is a well-known ngakpa Lama (of the Dudjom Tersar & Chang Ter lineages) now living in Lansing Iowa. Although most of His students practice the Dudjom Tersar, He has a group of students (Dudjom Tersar or not) who are doing a graduated series of retreats on the Vajra Armor mantra correlated with the five elements as well as the stages of practice from Mahayoga to Yang Ti. In order to graduate from one level to the next, one has to demonstrate in physical form that one has accomplished a certain level of power over the element at hand. These tests are quite precise in nature, objective in their judgement (as much as anything is objective), and it typically takes multiple retreats to pass each level. This is both humbling (when one fails) but also very confidence-building (when one passes), not to mention downright magical. Different students take longer or shorter to pass each level, although there is a sort of average developing for Lama Dawa's students. Recently, six students passed Level Two correlated to Anuyoga and the fire element. Each level also confers authority to do certain types of healing practices associated with the Vajra Armor mantra.

Anyone interested in Lama Dawa's Vajra Armor course should go to: http://saraswatibhawan.org/vajra-armor-retreats/

[byamspa]

Malcolm's point that a real ngakpa is someone who has real power over a mantra is well taken. Anyone can call him- or herself a ngakpa/ngakmo and wear ngakpa robes, but if they do not have power over at least one mantra, that title is a hollow label. Lama Dawa Choddak is a well-known ngakpa Lama (of the Dudjom Tersar & Chang Ter lineages) now living in Lansing Iowa. Although most of His students practice the Dudjom Tersar, He has a group of students (Dudjom Tersar or not) who are doing a graduated series of retreats on the Vajra Armor mantra correlated with the five elements as well as the stages of practice from Mahayoga to Yang Ti. In order to graduate from one level to the next, one has to demonstrate in physical form that one has accomplished a certain level of power over the element at hand. These tests are quite precise in nature, objective in their judgement (as much as anything is objective), and it typically takes multiple retreats to pass each level. This is both humbling (when one fails) but also very confidence-building (when one passes), not to mention downright magical. Different students take longer or shorter to pass each level, although there is a sort of average developing for Lama Dawa's students. Recently, six students passed Level Two correlated to Anuyoga and the fire element. Each level also confers authority to do certain types of healing practices associated with the Vajra Armor mantra.

Anyone interested in Lama Dawa's Vajra Armor course should go to: http://saraswatibhawan.org/vajra-armor-retreats/

Friend of mine is doing this course. Its the real thing all right.

[SSJ3Gogeta]

Everyone who recieves an anuttarayogatantra empowerment already has the 14 root and 8 branch samayas.


M

Then its best not to take such empowerments, and just get Direct Introduction?

I know I'm changing the subject.

[byamspa]

Everyone who recieves an anuttarayogatantra empowerment already has the 14 root and 8 branch samayas.


M

Then its best not to take such empowerments, and just get Direct Introduction?

Huh?

[SSJ3Gogeta]

Huh?

Direct Introduction has only one samaya, and is beyond the four anuttarayogatantra empowerments.

[Malcolm]

Everyone who recieves an anuttarayogatantra empowerment already has the 14 root and 8 branch samayas.


M

Then its best not to take such empowerments, and just get Direct Introduction?

I know I'm changing the subject.

Also receiving direct introduction is connected with samaya. But if you are a ChNN student, you just worry about how he teaches it and don't worry abotu the rest.

[SSJ3Gogeta]

Also receiving direct introduction is connected with samaya.

yes but only one, as opposed to 14 root and 8 branch samayas.

[Malcolm]

Also receiving direct introduction is connected with samaya.

yes but only one, as opposed to 14 root and 8 branch samayas.

No, also these other samayas applys.

[SSJ3Gogeta]

No, also these other samayas applys.

sweet jesus.

lol

[byamspa]

Also receiving direct introduction is connected with samaya.

yes but only one, as opposed to 14 root and 8 branch samayas.

"Boundless view above, skyward in a vast and spacious lion's gaze.
Conduct earthbound, caring and precise."

Venerable Khenpo Rinpoches

im not sure what you are exactly arguing, ssj3gogeta, but conduct is important, view as vast as space and conduct as fine as flour. nothing is neglected.

[byamspa]

Of course. Sometimes if it is cold, I might use a blanket. Then I kind of look like a fat blond guy wearing a native blanket.

fat blond and hairy guy wearing a native blanket or the fat, blond hippie in the poncho

/magnus

The poncho is more practical, it wont fall off of one like a blanket or zen might.

[Josef]

Actually, each item of Ngagpa "gear" has very profound meaning and points to a realization possessed or aspired to.

And finally, one's hair is empowered as a mandala of dakinis, so it can never be cut or trimmed -- because to do so would invite a punishment by dakinis for destroying their home.

M

Hey Malcolm,
Could you share any more history or philosophies behind hair as a part of the commitments etc.?
It's very interesting stuff.

[heart]

Huh?

Direct Introduction has only one samaya, and is beyond the four anuttarayogatantra empowerments.

Normally the Dzogchen samayas are enumerated as the 27 general samayas and the 4 exceptional samayas. But you are probably talking about a practice commitment.

/magnus

[SSJ3Gogeta]

I'm talking about someone who just receives straight up Direct Introdution ala ChNN.

I'm pretty sure such people have sex with non-practitioners.

So would this be allowed?

[Blue Garuda]

It isn't actually a ordination, like the ordination to become a monk/nun, it is an empowerment. You can call it an elaborate Samaya if you like.

/magnus

There is often formal ordination based on tantric samayas.

I am just telling you what my Guru told me and how I gave me my Ngakpa vows, I am not really arguing. In general I would be a little careful with nyingma.com.

/magnus

Personally, I'm careful with all of them, magnus. That one just came up on Google.

It's sad, but one encounters so many sharks in robes - maroon, saffron and white. One recently tried to sell me his Dzogchen Ngondro and a follow-up retreat. Seems the line taken is: 'my way or the highway', other schools or gurus are not as good, and the Dalai Lama tells me I'm wonderful. As soon as the 'I'm your saviour' bullshit starts, I leave or keep a respectful distance away from their cults, sorry sanghas.

Malcolm - very interesting, thanks. I note ChNNR strongly emphasises mastery of each mantra of the practices he teaches in retreats, even if we only master one.

So many lamas just sell one empowerment after another, level upon level, commitment piled upon commitment - and money piled upon money.

Then they let their students pyramid sell for them, given a territory to deliver their own empowerments - just like buying a coffee house franchise. Shameful.
Why the Trading Standards authorities don't close cults down defies logic. They'll prosecute someone selling fake handbags but ignore an organisation which messes up people's minds. Isn't lying to sell unobtainable salvation as bad as selling a fake Rolex?

The above ARE negative comments on the Business of Buddhism. There is a particular 'Ngagpa' organisation which I hope nobody has the misfortune to encounter.

There, I feel much better now! LOL