A directive for a non-sectarian approach to practice (HHDL)

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JKhedrup
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Re: A directive for a non-sectarian approach to practice (HHDL)

Postby JKhedrup » Sat Aug 18, 2012 6:03 am

Viniketa-
You hit the nail on the head! Flexibility seems to go out the window at times. I always find the sectarianism of Buddhists to be rather embarrassing .

But I think that Tibetan Buddhism is getting a bit of a bum rap in this thread. I must say in my experience that the Theravada tradition can also be extremely sectarian. For example, I left at that time my Theravada temple with permission to study Tibetan in Dharamsala. No one complained. But when I went to Thailand for a visit, the abbot of a temple where I had stayed before told me I would have to re-take the bhikkhu ordination as I had become "Mahayana by association" if I wanted to stay for a long period of time.

The Tibetan masters I spoke to, including Lama Zopa Rinpoche and Jangtse Choje Rinpoche (the next Ganden Tripa) told me that since my novice ordination was in Tibetan Buddhism I had a good connection to the lineage. They said it was absolutely unnecessary to re-take the gelong (bhikkhu/full) ordination from a Tibetan master, since the Theravada ordination was valid from a pure ordination lineage. LZR and Jangtse Choje also told me I should participate in the Sojong/Posada with the Tibetan monks with no problem, and I should have a stable conviction that "I am a Gelong".

Jnana
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Re: A directive for a non-sectarian approach to practice (HHDL)

Postby Jnana » Sat Aug 18, 2012 6:07 am


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viniketa
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Re: A directive for a non-sectarian approach to practice (HHDL)

Postby viniketa » Sat Aug 18, 2012 6:10 am

Last edited by viniketa on Sat Aug 18, 2012 6:12 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Jnana
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Re: A directive for a non-sectarian approach to practice (HHDL)

Postby Jnana » Sat Aug 18, 2012 6:12 am


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Re: A directive for a non-sectarian approach to practice (HHDL)

Postby username » Sat Aug 18, 2012 11:28 am

Dzogchen masters I know say: 1)Buddhist religion essence is Dzogchen 2)Religions are positive by intent/fruit 3)Any method's OK unless: breaking Dzogchen vows, mixed as syncretic (Milanese Soup) 4)Don't join mandalas of opponents of Dalai Lama/Padmasambhava: False Deity inventors by encouraging victims 5)Don't debate Ati with others 6)Don't discuss Ati practices online 7) A master told his old disciple: no one's to discuss his teaching with some others on a former forum nor mention him. Publicity's OK, questions are asked from masters/set teachers in person/email/non-public forums~Best wishes

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pueraeternus
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Re: A directive for a non-sectarian approach to practice (HHDL)

Postby pueraeternus » Sat Aug 18, 2012 3:09 pm

If you believe certain words, you believe their hidden arguments. When you believe something is right or wrong, true of false, you believe the assumptions in the words which express the arguments. Such assumptions are often full of holes, but remain most precious to the convinced.

- The Open-Ended Proof from The Panoplia Prophetica

SSJ3Gogeta
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Re: A directive for a non-sectarian approach to practice (HHDL)

Postby SSJ3Gogeta » Sat Aug 18, 2012 5:40 pm

I like HHDL.

But its kind of hypocritical since he strongly pushes crypto-realist Tsongkhapa Madhyamaka, which is nothing like original Indian Madhyamaka or the other Tibetan schools.

Norwegian
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Re: A directive for a non-sectarian approach to practice (HHDL)

Postby Norwegian » Sat Aug 18, 2012 6:20 pm

SSJ3Gogeta,

Wash your mouth.

He's a Gelug, he likes Tsongkhapa. Nothing wrong with that.

But, so many times he repeats the following point: That the Tibetan lineages have their roots in India (Nyingma, Sakya, Kagyu, Gelug, etc.), and for this very reason it is of the utmost importance to study the works of the authors from the so called Nalanda tradition. In other words Nagarjuna, Aryadeva, Buddhapalita, Shantideva, etc. And of course, if you're not following a Tibetan lineage, but consider yourself a Mahayana Buddhist, the aforementioned still rings true.

That is hardly "pushing crypto-realist Tsongkhapa Madhyamaka" ...

zangskar
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Re: A directive for a non-sectarian approach to practice (HHDL)

Postby zangskar » Sat Aug 18, 2012 6:26 pm

Avoiding sectarianism is extremely important for Tibetans in the current situation. I think most Tibetans agree on this, not just the Dalai Lama though he is the symbol of this national/religious unity. Different opinions and diversity is good, and of benefit to all, and is made possible by a common sense of unity and mutual respect. That's how I understand HHDLs advice.
Best wishes
Lars

JKhedrup
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Re: A directive for a non-sectarian approach to practice (HHDL)

Postby JKhedrup » Sun Aug 19, 2012 4:28 am

I also disagree. If you look at what His Holiness teaches in India, for example, it is most often texts from the Nalanda tradition, especially the texts of Nagarjuna and Shantideva. He often gently scolds the monks at the three great Gelug seats (Sera, Drepung, Ganden) for relying too much on the debate manuals, and exhorts them to study the Indian treatises.
It is interesting to note too that the official textbooks of the Gelug curriculum- the 5 Great Treatises- are all Indian texts. While for debate a monk might memorize large portions of their monastic textbooks (yig-cha), by their own colleges authors (in the case of Sera Jey, for example, most of the manuals are by Jetsunpa), this will not help them in their memorization exam.
To pass the memorization exam they need to learn by heart large portions of Indian texts such as the Ornament of Clear Realizations, Entering the Middle way etc. And though Tsongkhapa's view has some particular aspects (in many ways I find Sakya Pandita's view makes more sense, though I have to be careful where I say that :shock: ) , saying it is "nothing like original Madhyamika" is a bit of a harsh conclusion IMO.


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