username wrote:Secondly, a few Hinayana or Mahayana or Zen birds does not a Buddhist spring make. A few days ago you wrote how Buddhists did not have violence as a doctrine. You must be unaware of the various atrocities committed by Zen monasteries during the middle ages and civil wars in Japan. Or the age old dirty political games going on in Sri Lanka or Thailand religious institutions. Or in Burma or Vietnam before the communists repressed everyone. Your presentations are not balanced and simplistic.
Oh Buddhists can kill people, but will be hard pressed to defend it doctrinally. Their arguments would come apart like an old burlap sack.
Thirdly I believe there are siddhas in the guise of lower vehicles as well as non-Buddhists.
This is also an issue: referring to other traditions as "lower vehicles". Just as East Asian Buddhists have a tendency to overuse the term "Hīnayāna", unaware of what it entails. It is quite belittling and inappropriate given our present day circumstances. Yes, I'm well aware these terms have been employed for centuries, but it really just belittles traditions that could possibly have a lot to offer. Instead of encouraging study and investigation, they might just be written off as useless by calling them "lower vehicles".
But also Tibetans could learn more from TB & Vajrayana vehicles too. In fact most Tibetans, not a few star lamas abroad, inside or exiled are basically striving to survive. Even the majority of ordinary Tibetans merely do dharma superficially as a custom, as they did before 1959. If you mean the thousands of monks & their lamas, they just have been saving their texts, numerous practices & lineages not to mention wider cultural ways from the verge of cultural genocide for the last few decades. A lot has been lost anyway. Plus being in exile or inside under difficult conditions.
Sure, but they still have the opportunity to dialogue with other traditions, especially the monks and nuns. In India for example you can find plenty of non-Tibetan Viharas.
In Nepal there is a growing community of Theravada Buddhists which stands to undermine the monopoly Tibetan traditions largely hold there. One monk suggested to me that Theravada might have a lot to offer. Bhikkhus are not supposed to have money, so having them pay tuition fees for something equivalent to Shedra would be impractical. This would open up study to monks who might otherwise not have the resources to get a full Buddhist education.
Finally you have to realize it is drilled into Tibetans that Vajrayana is superior to all other Indic ideas & lower Buddhist yanas by various detailed texts taught to young monks in all schools. As the Hinayana are drilled to think of Mahayana as not true and Mahayana thinking of Vajrayana as not true.
Yes and no. I've met plenty of bhikkhus and ecumenical Buddhists who simply don't care about such polemics. Mahāyāna might be cautiously kept at a distance in Theravadin countries, but most people unless some bhikkhu tells them otherwise are not going to denounce Mahāyāna practitioners as heretics. Keep in mind Chinese Buddhism has long existed in Thailand among the Chinese diaspora over there. Guanyin also has a popular following among Thais I hear.
Hi Huseng, I told you which parts of your statements I oppose, which I agree with & which are more complex than you paint. However you simply ignore the main points put to you and not saying what you agree with plus go off in tangents opening up new areas to debate. This is basic polemics and makes any debate pointless so I will just state the main points against your latest post:
- You can deny the justifications of war in the name of various Buddhist sects. But those sects' abbots & leaders throughout history to this day in Sri Lanka, being investigated by the UN War Crimes group, know more about their sects than you do & will surely not fall apart in debate according to their own tenets with you. This is just a fantasy.
- The point in that paragraph was the non Tibetan Buddhist institutions of Hinayana & Mahayana in various Asian countries also have histories of institutional corruption within politics & violence to this very day. Your ignoring & whitewashing of them is simply naive & when pointed out & ignored just not right.
- Hinayana included many schools including Theravada. Your suggestion that Vajrayana stop calling it Hinayana is basically absurd as you ask them to basically change their religion and accept Hinayana claims. This is like telling the Jews to accept Jesus as Messiah & the Christians to accept Mohammed as the last & greatest prophet! That will be a new religion and not Vajrayana. Similarly you would want Mahayana to drop their basic beliefs WRT to Hinayana. You are basically asking Vajrayana & Mahayana religions and sub-schools to completely change their religions' many principles. As I said your assertions are simplistic in nature & completely unbalanced. I really do not see any point in even discussing things at this unrealistic level.
- You also ignore the fact that a few gestures by the handful of token examples of inter-sect studies or what some monk told you on the streets of Nepal does not mean the establishment of Hinayana & Mahayana have changed their religions. This is coffee shop level reasoning, not serious debate. And there have been similar inter-sect token gestures by TB lamas too. These token few extrapolations are far from the reality of all those religions changing their historical fundamental tenets.
- On various sects living in close proximity in certain locations, every sect visits their centers in Bodhgaya too and rubs shoulders with each other as Christian sects do in Jerusalem but no one is changing their religion. Again it does not follow any tectonic shifting of plates is taking place within any group's established doctrines.
- You also completely ignore the perilous situation facing Tibetans' culture & practices & lineages & texts they have been trying to save recently in exile I mentioned that even non Buddhists are aware of. Again utterly unrealistic in expecting them to abandon their Vajrayana principles in favor of Hinayana while they have their hands full both under repression inside & struggling to survive in exile. While seeing no fault within the institutions sharing power, sometimes corruptly, by others elsewhere in Asia in luxury.
- Hinayana still dismisses Mahayana & Vajryana as not Buddha's true teachings and similarly Mahayana WRT to Vajrayana. You are just engaging in sophistry.
- Apart from not grasping the basic points in discussion, you do not understand basic ontological categories pointed out to you. When Hinayana changes their religion by accepting Mahayana claims that is a new development, which BTW has not happened. Or similarly if Mahayana starts accepting Vajrayana claims, which again despite a few people researching a few papers (meaningless) or what a monk says on the street, has also not happened. HOWEVER Vajrayana accepts all of Hinayana & Mahayana as valid & true teachings of Buddha. There is nothing to be done regarding those. As I said they are an accepted ontological subset of Vajrayana beliefs. Kangyur & Tengyur have been part of TB studies since King Trisong asked Shanta & Padma to bring Buddhism to Tibet. We can not renew our acceptance of them like aged couples renewing their wedding vows. We never stopped believing in Hinayana or Mahayana to be asked to accept them again! However the lower schools never accepted the higher ones. This seems to completely escape you.
Finally I would like to say people should only take HYT or high empowerments within Vajrayana if they agree with it's basic tenets. If people think Vajrayana basic tenets & certain major tantras are wrong and false in asserting the superiority of the Vajrayana over lower vehicles or other basic principles of Vajrayana, then they should not enter Vajrayana. There are samayas or rules within Vajrayana to basically not "deconstruct
" it's basic tenets and re-construct it into a whole new religion & practice that creation with new parts & new ideologies. For by doing that you have invented your own Frankenstein version of Vajrayana and basically have started your own lineage as a new prophet with a completely different demi-Vajrayana religion.
Dzogchen masters I know say: 1)Buddhist religion essence is Dzogchen 2)Religions are positive by intent/fruit 3)Any method's OK unless: breaking Dzogchen vows, mixed as syncretic (Milanese Soup) 4)Don't join mandalas of opponents of Dalai Lama/Padmasambhava: False Deity inventors by encouraging victims 5)Don't debate Ati with others 6)Don't discuss Ati practices online 7) A master told his old disciple: no one's to discuss his teaching with some others on a former forum nor mention him. Publicity's OK, questions are asked from masters/set teachers in person/email/non-public forums~Best wishes