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A Critique of Brahmavamso’s “The Jhanas” - Page 9 - Dhamma Wheel

A Critique of Brahmavamso’s “The Jhanas”

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
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Dmytro
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Re: A Critique of Brahmavamso’s “The Jhanas”

Postby Dmytro » Thu Mar 10, 2011 6:36 am

Thank you, Nathan, for your inspiring and valuable posts.

I think this discussion won't be so heated if the participants didn't have a personal experience of the states discussed. The issue is that people tend to mix the experience with it's interpretation, and then to defend this interpretation.

It's interesting how various interpretations of jhana become self-fulfilling prophecies - a person believes in a given interpretation, prectices the methods recommended, and indeed arives to the states described.

That's why the words of the Buddha are so precious to consult.

Metta, Dmytro


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Re: A Critique of Brahmavamso’s “The Jhanas”

Postby tiltbillings » Thu Mar 10, 2011 6:49 am


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Re: A Critique of Brahmavamso’s “The Jhanas”

Postby Sylvester » Thu Mar 10, 2011 6:51 am

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Re: A Critique of Brahmavamso’s “The Jhanas”

Postby nathan » Thu Mar 10, 2011 7:16 am

But whoever walking, standing, sitting, or lying down overcomes thought, delighting in the stilling of thought: he's capable, a monk like this, of touching superlative self-awakening. § 110. {Iti 4.11; Iti 115}

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Re: A Critique of Brahmavamso’s “The Jhanas”

Postby Sylvester » Thu Mar 10, 2011 7:30 am


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Re: A Critique of Brahmavamso’s “The Jhanas”

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Re: A Critique of Brahmavamso’s “The Jhanas”

Postby Sylvester » Thu Mar 10, 2011 8:44 am

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Re: A Critique of Brahmavamso’s “The Jhanas”

Postby Sylvester » Thu Mar 10, 2011 8:50 am

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Re: A Critique of Brahmavamso’s “The Jhanas”

Postby Sylvester » Thu Mar 10, 2011 8:57 am


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Re: A Critique of Brahmavamso’s “The Jhanas”

Postby Sylvester » Thu Mar 10, 2011 8:59 am


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Re: A Critique of Brahmavamso’s “The Jhanas”

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Re: A Critique of Brahmavamso’s “The Jhanas”

Postby Sylvester » Thu Mar 10, 2011 9:24 am


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Re: A Critique of Brahmavamso’s “The Jhanas”

Postby tiltbillings » Thu Mar 10, 2011 9:32 am


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Re: A Critique of Brahmavamso’s “The Jhanas”

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Re: A Critique of Brahmavamso’s “The Jhanas”

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Re: A Critique of Brahmavamso’s “The Jhanas”

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Re: A Critique of Brahmavamso’s “The Jhanas”

Postby nathan » Thu Mar 10, 2011 12:11 pm

But whoever walking, standing, sitting, or lying down overcomes thought, delighting in the stilling of thought: he's capable, a monk like this, of touching superlative self-awakening. § 110. {Iti 4.11; Iti 115}

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Re: A Critique of Brahmavamso’s “The Jhanas”

Postby Nyana » Thu Mar 10, 2011 12:23 pm


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Re: A Critique of Brahmavamso’s “The Jhanas”

Postby morning mist » Thu Mar 10, 2011 4:15 pm

Hi Nana,

There are different types of cettavimutti. Each refers to a particular meditation. Not all qualify as the four jhana in Samma Samadhi. You are using the name and description of one type of meditation to describe another. There is obviously a mix up.

For example, the description and name of akincanna cetovimutti can't be used as a synonym for adukkhamasukhaya cetovimuttiya, each describe a different meditation state. One of them qualify as Samma Samadhi the other one doesn't .
Another example is animitta cetovimutti. It is not the same state as adukkhamasukhaya cetovimuttiya or the ones in Samma Samadhi.


The term samatha can includes the four jhanas as well as the formless states. The formless states are not included in Samma samadhi. The reason is that they are different than the ones in Samma samadhi.

Cetavimutti includes both Samma samadhi and formless states depending on the type. Akincanna cetovimutti describes a formless state. Adukkhamasukhaya cetovimuttiya
describes the four form jhana. The description for the one state is not meant for the other.

Likewise , the description for mahaggatā cetovimuti is not for animitta cetovimutti
or Adukkhamasukhaya cetovimuttiya. Animitta cetovimutti and mahaggata cetovimutti are specific types of cetovimutti rather than different descriptions for the same state.

With metta,
with metta,

morning mist
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Re: A Critique of Brahmavamso’s “The Jhanas”

Postby morning mist » Thu Mar 10, 2011 4:16 pm

with metta,


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