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Only Suffering Arises & Ceases? - Dhamma Wheel

Only Suffering Arises & Ceases?

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
dhammapal
Posts: 1562
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Location: Sydney, Australia

Only Suffering Arises & Ceases?

Postby dhammapal » Tue Mar 08, 2011 8:44 am







dhammapal
Posts: 1562
Joined: Sun Nov 01, 2009 9:23 am
Location: Sydney, Australia

Re: Only Suffering Arises & Ceases?

Postby dhammapal » Tue Mar 08, 2011 10:00 am







Vossaga (Element)

Re: Only Suffering Arises & Ceases?

Postby Vossaga (Element) » Tue Mar 08, 2011 11:04 am


meindzai
Posts: 595
Joined: Thu Jan 15, 2009 8:10 pm

Re: Only Suffering Arises & Ceases?

Postby meindzai » Tue Mar 08, 2011 12:28 pm

It makes sense to me. As long as there is arising and passing, there is anicca, anatta, dukkha. When there is no arising and passing then there is only Nibanna. (Just be careful about the word "is," of course).

-M

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acinteyyo
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Location: Bavaria / Germany

Re: Only Suffering Arises & Ceases?

Postby acinteyyo » Tue Mar 08, 2011 12:42 pm

Thag 1.20. Ajita - I do not fear death; nor do I long for life. I’ll lay down this body, aware and mindful.

rowyourboat
Posts: 1952
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2009 5:29 pm
Location: London, UK

Re: Only Suffering Arises & Ceases?

Postby rowyourboat » Tue Mar 08, 2011 5:46 pm

With Metta

Karuna
Mudita
& Upekkha

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daverupa
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Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2011 6:58 pm

Re: Only Suffering Arises & Ceases?

Postby daverupa » Tue Mar 08, 2011 9:43 pm

In short, ensure that you aren't ascribing an ontological connotation to the word "anything". This conflation of the Dhamma's epistemology with some perceived meta/physical ontology seems to be fairly prevalent, and confuses people more than it ought.

Vossaga (Element)

Re: Only Suffering Arises & Ceases?

Postby Vossaga (Element) » Wed Mar 09, 2011 2:20 am

Last edited by Vossaga (Element) on Wed Mar 09, 2011 3:15 am, edited 2 times in total.

Vossaga (Element)

Re: Only Suffering Arises & Ceases?

Postby Vossaga (Element) » Wed Mar 09, 2011 2:53 am

Last edited by Vossaga (Element) on Wed Mar 09, 2011 2:55 am, edited 2 times in total.

rowyourboat
Posts: 1952
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2009 5:29 pm
Location: London, UK

Re: Only Suffering Arises & Ceases?

Postby rowyourboat » Wed Mar 09, 2011 11:02 am

Hi Vossagga,


To experience the TOTAL ending of craving, is to experience bhavanirodha and salayatananirodha. These two are not separate or distinct.


Furthermore..


The arahanth continues to experience sense phenomena because his body continues to function. The very fact that this body/brain is hard wired to experience craving, aversion and delusion (see the brain spot/ neurological correlate for the 'Self' in the medial prefrontal cortex) goes to show the depth of avijja and how it gives rise to the bodily fabrication (as well as verbal and mental fabrications in the deepest sense). This body, as long as it continues to exist, continues to give rise to consciousness based on a previous avijja/craving/kamma/vinnana.

However there is no new avijja for the arahanth. Nothing will be/to be carried forward to a next life... and this is verifiable even now - in many senses the heart of the meaning of the word Dhamma in a Buddhist sense- verifiable now. When craving (even for becoming) ceases, EVERYTHING ceases.

There's no point of a path which promises the ending of suffering (with no excuses or caveats) and doesn't deliver it now but leaves it in some far future, in the next life.

with metta

Matheesha
With Metta

Karuna
Mudita
& Upekkha

rowyourboat
Posts: 1952
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2009 5:29 pm
Location: London, UK

Re: Only Suffering Arises & Ceases?

Postby rowyourboat » Wed Mar 09, 2011 11:07 am

With Metta

Karuna
Mudita
& Upekkha

Vossaga (Element)

Re: Only Suffering Arises & Ceases?

Postby Vossaga (Element) » Wed Mar 09, 2011 11:36 am


Vossaga (Element)

Re: Only Suffering Arises & Ceases?

Postby Vossaga (Element) » Wed Mar 09, 2011 11:49 am


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daverupa
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Re: Only Suffering Arises & Ceases?

Postby daverupa » Wed Mar 09, 2011 10:22 pm


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Ron-The-Elder
Posts: 1885
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Location: Concord, New Hampshire, U.S.A.

Re: Only Suffering Arises & Ceases?

Postby Ron-The-Elder » Wed Mar 16, 2011 6:11 pm

What Makes an Elder? :
A head of gray hairs doesn't mean one's an elder. Advanced in years, one's called an old fool.
But one in whom there is truth, restraint, rectitude, gentleness,self-control, he's called an elder, his impurities disgorged, enlightened.
-Dhammpada, 19, translated by Thanissaro Bhikkhu.

rowyourboat
Posts: 1952
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2009 5:29 pm
Location: London, UK

Re: Only Suffering Arises & Ceases?

Postby rowyourboat » Thu Mar 17, 2011 5:47 pm

It is suffering, desired or not.
With Metta

Karuna
Mudita
& Upekkha


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