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the great vegetarian debate - Page 54 - Dhamma Wheel

the great vegetarian debate

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths. What can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
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ground
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Re: Veganism Again

Postby ground » Sun Mar 06, 2011 5:11 am


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tiltbillings
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Re: Veganism Again

Postby tiltbillings » Sun Mar 06, 2011 5:15 am


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tiltbillings
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Re: Veganism Again

Postby tiltbillings » Sun Mar 06, 2011 5:23 am


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Re: Veganism Again

Postby tiltbillings » Sun Mar 06, 2011 5:33 am


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Re: Veganism Again

Postby octathlon » Sun Mar 06, 2011 5:49 am


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poto
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Re: Veganism Again

Postby poto » Sun Mar 06, 2011 5:50 am

I sometimes wonder if those who rail against dairy have ever even seen or touched a real live cow. How much is talking points and such from activist organizations or something they've seen on TV? How much is actual real life experience?

My grandparents were dairy farmers. They ran a small dairy, started out with only a few cows and grew it to several hundred head over the course of their lifetimes. Being family and an able bodied male at that, I helped work the farm as free/slave labor when I was younger. I can tell you that every cow they had was well cared for. In fact, if you mistreat your cows it reflects in the milk. Happy cows give good milk and produce more of it. It behooves a farmer to ensure their cows are happy and healthy.

Now, I'm not saying that all cows are treated well. I'm sure the big corporations running the massive factory farms could care less about anything besides their profit margins. However, this does not mean that all dairy cows are being mistreated. Most farm animals have a much more pleasant existence than the short and violently brutal life that they would have had in the wild.

I get my eggs from a friend who keeps chickens. They are allowed to roam and scratch a bit, but are kept in a pen most times because of the coyotes. I have no ethical problems eating their eggs.

If I had the available land and time, I think I would like to keep some chickens and a few of the smaller breeds of goats for milking myself. I would not consider that to be 'business in meat', since I would not be selling anything, just producing my own food.

Really, I wonder if some of the kind vegan folks here aren't a bit disconnected from reality. Perhaps the convenience and abundance of modern supermarkets has spoiled people too much. I think some attitudes might shift, maybe just a little, if more people had to produce all their own food.

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Re: Veganism Again

Postby tiltbillings » Sun Mar 06, 2011 5:58 am


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Re: Veganism Again

Postby tiltbillings » Sun Mar 06, 2011 6:16 am


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Re: Veganism Again

Postby octathlon » Sun Mar 06, 2011 6:36 am


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Re: Veganism Again

Postby cooran » Sun Mar 06, 2011 6:53 am

Yes, I agree poto. When first married, I was a part-time grassroots hippie. We had ten acres, grew all our own vegetables and most of our fruit. Froze what we couldn’t immediately eat. Even tried making our own wine. We had free range chickens for eggs (bantams) and gave away what we couldn’t eat. We had a beautiful dairy cow and gave away excess milk and yoghurt.

However – though she had had female calves, she eventually had a male calf. Then, a decision had to be made about this little being, as he grew and went through puberty, breaking out and chasing next doors cows when they were ‘’bulling’’. Young bulls can be quite dangerous when they are chasing the ladies. Everyone in our rural area said that the only sensible thing to do was to send him to the abattoir.

We received the parcels of meat back from the abattoir, but it remained in a freezer and we could not eat it. We gave it away in the end.
It took years to get over this. But it was the first step on the road to reducing and ceasing meat eating. This was before I had heard of the Buddha's teachings.

Now that I have heard the Dhamma, I don't cook or buy meat myself. If I'm with friends or family and they serve a meal containing meat, I accept their hospitality and don't make a big thing of it.

with metta
Chris
---The trouble is that you think you have time---
---Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe---
---It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---

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Re: Veganism Again

Postby Ben » Sun Mar 06, 2011 9:03 am

Moderator note:
This is a reminder that off-topic posts are routinely removed without warning, as per the provisions within Dhamma Wheel's TOS.
kind regards

Ben
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

(Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • •

e: [email protected]..

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Re: Veganism Again

Postby Jhana4 » Sun Mar 06, 2011 1:51 pm

In reading the scriptures, there are two kinds of mistakes:
One mistake is to cling to the literal text and miss the inner principles.
The second mistake is to recognize the principles but not apply them to your own mind, so that you waste time and just make them into causes of entanglement.

Jhana4
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Re: Veganism Again

Postby Jhana4 » Sun Mar 06, 2011 1:58 pm

In reading the scriptures, there are two kinds of mistakes:
One mistake is to cling to the literal text and miss the inner principles.
The second mistake is to recognize the principles but not apply them to your own mind, so that you waste time and just make them into causes of entanglement.

Jhana4
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Re: Veganism Again

Postby Jhana4 » Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:06 pm

In reading the scriptures, there are two kinds of mistakes:
One mistake is to cling to the literal text and miss the inner principles.
The second mistake is to recognize the principles but not apply them to your own mind, so that you waste time and just make them into causes of entanglement.

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David N. Snyder
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Re: Veganism Again

Postby David N. Snyder » Sun Mar 06, 2011 3:40 pm

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PeterB
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No One Was Ever Enlightened/Unenlightened By Lunch.

Postby PeterB » Sun Mar 06, 2011 4:29 pm

The Theravadin Buddhists who have most impressed me are Luang Por Chah, Ajahn Sumedho, Ajahn Munindo, Ajahn Amaro, Dhiravamsa and Ajahn Anando.
None of them are/were vegetarian....
One of the most impressive non Theravadin Buddhists I have ever met appeared to live entirely on meat products.
Make of that what you will... :smile:

This is the OP perhaps you could point out where you think it belittles anyone ?
Last edited by PeterB on Mon Mar 21, 2011 9:27 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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poto
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Re: Veganism Again

Postby poto » Sun Mar 06, 2011 6:03 pm


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poto
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Re: Veganism Again

Postby poto » Sun Mar 06, 2011 6:09 pm


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Fede
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Re: No One Was Ever Enlightened/Unenlightened By Lunch.

Postby Fede » Sun Mar 06, 2011 6:12 pm

And there is no proof or evidence, either way AFAIK, that the Buddha himself was ever completely vegetarian, either.

This seems to be the one topic I know of, where Buddhists feel unable to accept and be compassionate towards those who have opposing views.

And that's all I wanna say 'bout that. :sage:
"Samsara: The human condition's heartbreaking inability to sustain contentment." Elizabeth Gilbert, 'Eat, Pray, Love'.

Simplify: 17 into 1 WILL go: Mindfulness!

Quieta movere magna merces videbatur. (Sallust, c.86-c.35 BC)
Translation: Just to stir things up seemed a good reward in itself. ;)

I am sooooo happy - How on earth could I be otherwise?! :D


http://www.armchairadvice.co.uk/relationships/forum/

PeterB
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Re: No One Was Ever Enlightened/Unenlightened By Lunch.

Postby PeterB » Sun Mar 06, 2011 6:14 pm

I wish you posted more often Fede...
:anjali:


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