Hsuan Hua on Homosexuality

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gyougan
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Re: Hsuan Hua on Homosexuality

Postby gyougan » Fri Aug 10, 2012 11:30 am


gyougan
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Re: Hsuan Hua on Homosexuality

Postby gyougan » Fri Aug 10, 2012 11:33 am

And by the way, I am not particularly pro-homosexuality. I am dubious about gay marriage and definitely against adoption rights for gay people.

But what Hsuan Hua is advocating here is simply put ridiculous and makes his realization questionable.

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Re: Hsuan Hua on Homosexuality

Postby treehuggingoctopus » Fri Aug 10, 2012 12:21 pm

. . . there they saw a rock! But it wasn't a rock . . .

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Re: Hsuan Hua on Homosexuality

Postby jmlee369 » Fri Aug 10, 2012 12:30 pm

This issue being of personal relevance to me, I have followed this matter for some time. Now, first off, I have managed to come across a scriptural reference to sexual activities which are considered sexual misconduct beyond the definitions in the Pali Suttas. It is found in 佛說優婆塞五戒相經(The Buddha Speaks the Upasaka’s Form of the Five Precepts Sutra) volume 24, #1476 in the Taisho. As far as I can understand, non-vaginal sex is deemed misconduct by the Sutra.

As for Master Hua's teachings, I have great respect for his efforts in propagating the Dharma, but have come to realise that not all pronouncements (or even conduct) of realised masters are neccesarily true. For example, there is a voice recording of the Master teaching on Youtube, in which the Master states that most Tibetan lamas have AIDS. That is one claim which we can easily discount. Looking at the actions of other masters, it becomes clear that a profound mastery and realisation of the Dharma does not seem to guarantee perfection of conduct and understanding. Thus, in the case of Master Hua's statements, I will learn from those teachings which I find to be in accord with the Dharma and beneficial in my study, and those that have a basis in Confucian or other cultural ideas, I will leave aside. Having attended two sessions at the City of Ten Thousand Buddhas, I have no doubt that the practice of Dharma that takes place at the City benefits numerous people.

I have heard elsewhere that DM Heng Sure had commented on this issue, but it would be best to contact him directly, since he is both a senior disciple and seemingly accessible figure.

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treehuggingoctopus
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Re: Hsuan Hua on Homosexuality

Postby treehuggingoctopus » Fri Aug 10, 2012 12:39 pm

. . . there they saw a rock! But it wasn't a rock . . .

gyougan
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Re: Hsuan Hua on Homosexuality

Postby gyougan » Fri Aug 10, 2012 12:51 pm

Sadly people especially in Asia take anything these "masters" say as truth.

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Re: Hsuan Hua on Homosexuality

Postby zangskar » Fri Aug 10, 2012 1:05 pm


JKhedrup
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Re: Hsuan Hua on Homosexuality

Postby JKhedrup » Fri Aug 10, 2012 1:15 pm

Yes for me it was profoundly sad to read these comments the first time I found them (while staying at the City of Ten Thousand Buddhas incidentally), as I have great appreciation for Master Hsuan Hua and his community. It was not the fact that homosexuality was questioned per se, as of course especially in Mahayana Buddhism there are scriptural sources for this (not saying I necessarily agree with a literalist interpretation, just saying such scriptures are there). The disturbing point was the vehemence and lack of compassion with which it was said.
The comment about most lamas having AIDS I would appreciate a link for. If indeed the Master did say this, it is too ridiculous to even merit comment, and I will have to re-evaluate the esteem in which I hold him yet again. It almost sounds like sectarian posturing.

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Re: Hsuan Hua on Homosexuality

Postby Astus » Fri Aug 10, 2012 1:16 pm

Interpretations of marriage, sexual life and many other social customs are not relevant to the path of liberation. They are just ideas of a culture in an era.
Myriad dharmas are only mind.
Mind is unobtainable.
What is there to seek?

If the Buddha-Nature is seen,
there will be no seeing of a nature in any thing.

Neither cultivation nor seated meditation —
this is the pure Chan of Tathagata.

With sudden enlightenment to Tathagata Chan,
the six paramitas and myriad means
are complete within that essence.



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Re: Hsuan Hua on Homosexuality

Postby jmlee369 » Fri Aug 10, 2012 1:28 pm


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Indrajala
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Re: Hsuan Hua on Homosexuality

Postby Indrajala » Fri Aug 10, 2012 2:27 pm

tad etat sarvajñānaṃ karuṇāmūlaṃ bodhicittahetukam upāyaparyavasānam iti |

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Re: Hsuan Hua on Homosexuality

Postby Indrajala » Fri Aug 10, 2012 2:34 pm

tad etat sarvajñānaṃ karuṇāmūlaṃ bodhicittahetukam upāyaparyavasānam iti |

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treehuggingoctopus
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Re: Hsuan Hua on Homosexuality

Postby treehuggingoctopus » Fri Aug 10, 2012 2:42 pm

. . . there they saw a rock! But it wasn't a rock . . .

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LastLegend
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Re: Hsuan Hua on Homosexuality

Postby LastLegend » Fri Aug 10, 2012 3:14 pm

The standard is sex in a marriage between a man and a woman. Anything else Buddha did not say. Another example is: do not kill any sentient beings. That's standard. Buddha did not say anything else about exceptions or no exceptions. Buddha went with standards.
NAMO AMITABHA
NAM MO A DI DA PHAT (VIETNAMESE)
NAMO AMITUOFO (CHINESE)

Bodhidharma [my translation]
―I come to the East to transmit this clear knowing mind without constructing any dharma―

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Re: Hsuan Hua on Homosexuality

Postby DGA » Fri Aug 10, 2012 3:27 pm


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Indrajala
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Re: Hsuan Hua on Homosexuality

Postby Indrajala » Fri Aug 10, 2012 5:02 pm

tad etat sarvajñānaṃ karuṇāmūlaṃ bodhicittahetukam upāyaparyavasānam iti |

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Re: Hsuan Hua on Homosexuality

Postby Lotus415 » Fri Aug 10, 2012 5:46 pm

Again, there is a difference between stating an opinion and stating such horrible things as is quoted. One wonders if he would have supported the "god hates fags" group who claim all disasters in the world come from homosexuality?
One can skirt around the issue and say he was "conservative" or preaching to "ethnic Chinese" (which he wasn't only, since his main goal was to bring the Dharma to the west, yet he did still require his disciples to learn Chinese), but the types of things recorded are really just vile.


"Homosexuality invites punishment onto itself. The sentence is a strange disease. Since yang counteracts yang, yin counteracts yin the way that magnets have a positive and a negative side. Attraction requires one side to be yin and the other to be yang. If both sides were yang or yin, they will not stick together. Deduce from the law of physics and we know that the principles of yin and yang cannot be dismissed.

The Book of Changes says, "one yin and one yang is called the Tao; too much yin and too much yang is a sickness." When yin and yang combine, it is the Tao. When yin and yang do not combine, sickness occurs. This is why homosexual behavior created AIDS. Some say the source of AIDS is Africa. But that is not the origin, the origin lies with homosexual behavior."

http://www.gbm-online.com/online/dharma/sincere.html

Well there's some "science" for you.

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treehuggingoctopus
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Re: Hsuan Hua on Homosexuality

Postby treehuggingoctopus » Fri Aug 10, 2012 6:03 pm

. . . there they saw a rock! But it wasn't a rock . . .

undefineable
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Re: Hsuan Hua on Homosexuality

Postby undefineable » Fri Aug 10, 2012 6:24 pm

So mahayana Buddhism in theory is about avoiding the three poisons and cultivating an understanding of sunyata, whereas mahayana Buddhism in practice is about cultivating aversion towards sentient beings on the basis that they are inherently existent demons (unless they've managed to somehow hollow themselves out to leave an empty shell of confucian-style conformity).

If that's what Buddhism has to be, then I'll have to refrain from 'bad language'. There again, in delving deep into his own psyche, this Hua guy seems to have uncovered a whole new level of aversion and reification, as if he were letting it out of its kennel for a run in the park or something.

It's interesting to imagine how someone with old-fashioned prejudices who can't see beyond the colour of someone's skin or the kind of people someone fancies would react to our modern western -more-penetrating- perspectives, in which people are judged on the basis of the (apparent) fabric of what they are. In other words, how would Hua's mind shape up if he saw just how different -'psychologically deranged' in his words- people with conditions such as schizophrenia and autism really are from the majority, as well as how normal (and self-evidently more balanced than normal in 'yin-yang' terms) homosexuals are by comparison? Let's be thankful that all that appears to have gone over his head and under his radar, otherwise I suspect we'd be left with the the somewhat unwelcome headline "Chinese Buddhist leader running extermination camp for headcases" _ _

I mean, what are 'abnormal' practitioners -including all who have taken (or who are considering taking) refuge vows- supposed to do? Seal themselves up in vajra hell and vow never to leave? How exactly would sunyata and anatta hold up in a reality/dharmakaya so easily shattered by vagaries in the innate conditions of a few sentient beings? {I wonder if I should stop practicing any form of dharma. I thought it was enough that I understood parts of it :shrug: }

undefineable
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Re: Hsuan Hua on Homosexuality

Postby undefineable » Fri Aug 10, 2012 6:30 pm

Sorry I over-reacted -On further reading, it seems this guy is clearly preaching a-dharma-


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