Question about rainbow bodies

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Question about rainbow bodies

Postby Nighthawk » Wed Jul 18, 2012 6:12 am

Do rainbow bodies such as Padmasambhava and others ever achieve parinirvana in which they permanently put an end to helping sentient beings in this universe and the next and so on?
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Re: Question about rainbow bodies

Postby Josef » Wed Jul 18, 2012 6:16 am

no
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Re: Question about rainbow bodies

Postby Nighthawk » Wed Jul 18, 2012 6:49 am

Josef wrote:no


Just found this quote by Malcolm.
Malcolm wrote:
gad rgyangs wrote:
im confused about where the samyak sambuddhas(rainbow bodies) are during the basis-bardo.


Parinirvana without any remainder.


Seems to be contradicting what you're saying.
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Re: Question about rainbow bodies

Postby tomamundsen » Wed Jul 18, 2012 7:29 am

Nighthawk wrote:
Josef wrote:no


Just found this quote by Malcolm.
Malcolm wrote:
gad rgyangs wrote:
im confused about where the samyak sambuddhas(rainbow bodies) are during the basis-bardo.


Parinirvana without any remainder.


Seems to be contradicting what you're saying.

This guy is referring to the time between universes when he says "basis-bardo." So, there is no contradiction.
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Re: Question about rainbow bodies

Postby kirtu » Wed Jul 18, 2012 7:03 pm

Nighthawk wrote:Do rainbow bodies such as Padmasambhava and others ever achieve parinirvana in which they permanently put an end to helping sentient beings in this universe and the next and so on?


Rainbow body is a form of Buddhahood and Buddhas never end helping sentient beings.

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Re: Question about rainbow bodies

Postby Nighthawk » Wed Jul 18, 2012 8:11 pm

tomamundsen wrote:This guy is referring to the time between universes when he says "basis-bardo." So, there is no contradiction.

So what he's saying is they enter parinirvana during that period and pop back up with the arising of the new universe to help those newly formed sentient beings?
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Re: Question about rainbow bodies

Postby tomamundsen » Wed Jul 18, 2012 11:32 pm

Nighthawk wrote:
tomamundsen wrote:This guy is referring to the time between universes when he says "basis-bardo." So, there is no contradiction.

So what he's saying is they enter parinirvana during that period and pop back up with the arising of the new universe to help those newly formed sentient beings?

I think it's more like: there is no universe for buddhas to arise in, so they don't appear during that time period.
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Re: Question about rainbow bodies

Postby Nighthawk » Fri Jul 20, 2012 11:20 pm

tomamundsen wrote:
Nighthawk wrote:
tomamundsen wrote:This guy is referring to the time between universes when he says "basis-bardo." So, there is no contradiction.

So what he's saying is they enter parinirvana during that period and pop back up with the arising of the new universe to help those newly formed sentient beings?

I think it's more like: there is no universe for buddhas to arise in, so they don't appear during that time period.

So I'm assuming they chill out in buddhafields since buddhafields are outside all samsaric realms?
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Re: Question about rainbow bodies

Postby Josef » Fri Jul 20, 2012 11:23 pm

Nighthawk wrote:So I'm assuming they chill out in buddhafields since buddhafields are outside all samsaric realms?

no
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Re: Question about rainbow bodies

Postby Pema Rigdzin » Sat Jul 21, 2012 10:51 am

Nighthawk wrote:So I'm assuming they chill out in buddhafields since buddhafields are outside all samsaric realms?


My take is that the real Buddha is the dharmakaya... it is uncompounded and beyond existing, not existing, both, or neither, so there can be no talk of it dwelling here or there or at this or that time... When there are beings to be tamed, the rupakaya appears accordingly. When there are no beings to be tamed, the rupakaya emanations dissolve back into the nature within which they arose.

Also, "samsaric realms" vs "non-samsaric realms" is a distinction that occurs in the minds of ordinary beings like you and I, not a Buddha's wisdom mind. We have not yet transcended ideas of pure and impure, so we imagine that there could be some portions of reality that are "samsara" and others that are "Buddhafields". But in reality it's not like that.
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Re: Question about rainbow bodies

Postby Nighthawk » Sat Jul 21, 2012 8:36 pm

Pema Rigdzin wrote:
Nighthawk wrote:So I'm assuming they chill out in buddhafields since buddhafields are outside all samsaric realms?


My take is that the real Buddha is the dharmakaya... it is uncompounded and beyond existing, not existing, both, or neither, so there can be no talk of it dwelling here or there or at this or that time... When there are beings to be tamed, the rupakaya appears accordingly. When there are no beings to be tamed, the rupakaya emanations dissolve back into the nature within which they arose.

Also, "samsaric realms" vs "non-samsaric realms" is a distinction that occurs in the minds of ordinary beings like you and I, not a Buddha's wisdom mind. We have not yet transcended ideas of pure and impure, so we imagine that there could be some portions of reality that are "samsara" and others that are "Buddhafields". But in reality it's not like that.

Now this makes sense. Thank you.
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Re: Question about rainbow bodies

Postby Fa Dao » Thu Aug 02, 2012 5:35 pm

heres a thought...
after a person has achieved rainbow body is it possible for them to physically incarnate again? or do they stay that way indefinitely?
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Re: Question about rainbow bodies

Postby heart » Thu Aug 02, 2012 5:41 pm

Fa Dao wrote:heres a thought...
after a person has achieved rainbow body is it possible for them to physically incarnate again? or do they stay that way indefinitely?


Chetsun Senghe Wangchuk attained rainbow body and was later born as Jamyang Khyentse Wangpo, who then reveled the Chetsun Nyingthig.

/magnus
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Re: Question about rainbow bodies

Postby Malcolm » Thu Aug 02, 2012 5:48 pm

heart wrote:
Fa Dao wrote:heres a thought...
after a person has achieved rainbow body is it possible for them to physically incarnate again? or do they stay that way indefinitely?


Chetsun Senghe Wangchuk attained rainbow body and was later born as Jamyang Khyentse Wangpo, who then reveled the Chetsun Nyingthig.

/magnus



JKW was an emanation, not a reincarnation, technically speaking.

Likewise, Vimalamitra is supposed to manifest an emanation every one hundred years or so. My teacher, Kunzang Dechen Lingpa was an emantion of Vimalamitra, etc.
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Re: Question about rainbow bodies

Postby Nighthawk » Thu Aug 02, 2012 11:21 pm

Malcolm wrote:
heart wrote:
Fa Dao wrote:heres a thought...
after a person has achieved rainbow body is it possible for them to physically incarnate again? or do they stay that way indefinitely?


Chetsun Senghe Wangchuk attained rainbow body and was later born as Jamyang Khyentse Wangpo, who then reveled the Chetsun Nyingthig.

/magnus



JKW was an emanation, not a reincarnation, technically speaking.


Is Chogyal Namkhai Norbu an emanation or reincarnation?
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