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 Post subject: Different Taras
PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2012 6:46 am 
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Yes, it's this question. With a twist.

Does progress with one Tara carry over to others?

For example: if someone does a three year retreat on Green Tara and completes approach, then begins a three year retreat on Red Tara, will progress come faster and easier the second time due to the Green Tara practice?

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Equanimity is the ground. Love is the moisture. Compassion is the seed. Bodhicitta is the result.

-Paraphrase of Khensur Rinpoche Lobsang Tsephel citing the Guhyasamaja Tantra

"All memories and thoughts are the union of emptiness and knowing, the Mind.
Without attachment, self-liberating, like a snake in a knot.
Through the qualities of meditating in that way,
Mental obscurations are purified and the dharmakaya is attained."

-Ra Lotsawa, All-pervading Melodious Drumbeats


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 Post subject: Re: Different Taras
PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2012 7:03 am 
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What do you mean by progress? What are some signs?


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 Post subject: Re: Different Taras
PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2012 9:25 am 
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Konchog1 wrote:
Yes, it's this question. With a twist.

Does progress with one Tara carry over to others?

For example: if someone does a three year retreat on Green Tara and completes approach, then begins a three year retreat on Red Tara, will progress come faster and easier the second time due to the Green Tara practice?


I think the point of all Tara's are to recognize and sustain the natural state. The various forms and colors are of minor importance.

/magnus

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- Longchenpa


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 Post subject: Re: Different Taras
PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2012 3:53 pm 
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heart wrote:
The various forms and colors are of minor importance.


Except when the minor siddhi's manifest. Then the color and form is very important although the range of minor siddhi's overlaps. But actually this question applies to sublime realizations as well short of the major siddhi of enlightenment.

Konchog1 wrote:
Yes, it's this question. With a twist.

Does progress with one Tara carry over to others?

For example: if someone does a three year retreat on Green Tara and completes approach, then begins a three year retreat on Red Tara, will progress come faster and easier the second time due to the Green Tara practice?


You will need to ask an intense Tara practitioner. Perhaps someone has addressed this in a namthar or perhaps Jamgon Kongtrul addressed it?

Kirt

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Kirt's Tibetan Translation Notes

"Only you can make your mind beautiful."
HH Chetsang Rinpoche


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 Post subject: Re: Different Taras
PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2012 4:17 pm 
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this is a really interesting question. Konchog1, if you get an answer from a qualified Lama, I, for one, would be very interested in hearing it. :namaste:

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 Post subject: Re: Different Taras
PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2012 10:47 pm 
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Bardor Rinpoche says that White Tara and Kurukulle are included in the 21 Taras. Also that one can practice one of the 21's mantra separately after a retreat on Green Tara's mantra.

BUT, then why are there separate empowerments and mantras for White Tara and Kurukulle? That seems to imply there is no overlap.

Nighthawk wrote:
What do you mean by progress? What are some signs?
Visions, Siddhis etc.

_________________
Equanimity is the ground. Love is the moisture. Compassion is the seed. Bodhicitta is the result.

-Paraphrase of Khensur Rinpoche Lobsang Tsephel citing the Guhyasamaja Tantra

"All memories and thoughts are the union of emptiness and knowing, the Mind.
Without attachment, self-liberating, like a snake in a knot.
Through the qualities of meditating in that way,
Mental obscurations are purified and the dharmakaya is attained."

-Ra Lotsawa, All-pervading Melodious Drumbeats


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 Post subject: Re: Different Taras
PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2012 12:01 am 
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Location: Baltimore, MD
Konchog1 wrote:
BUT, then why are there separate empowerments and mantras for White Tara and Kurukulle?


Yes. And they can be practised separately and without receiving Green Tara empowerment.

Konchog1 wrote:
Nighthawk wrote:
What do you mean by progress? What are some signs?
Visions, Siddhis etc.


Well visions are not that big a deal. You can get visions even before an empowerment and certainly before any kind of minor siddhi manifests although these are minor visions.

Kirt

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Kirt's Tibetan Translation Notes

"Only you can make your mind beautiful."
HH Chetsang Rinpoche


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 Post subject: Re: Different Taras
PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2012 9:07 am 
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Konchog1 wrote:
Bardor Rinpoche says that White Tara and Kurukulle are included in the 21 Taras. Also that one can practice one of the 21's mantra separately after a retreat on Green Tara's mantra.

BUT, then why are there separate empowerments and mantras for White Tara and Kurukulle? That seems to imply there is no overlap.


Why would different empowerment's imply that there is no overlap? I don't think that the essence of the four empowerment's are different in a white Tara and a Kurukulle empowerment. In that case I think the what class of Tantra it belongs to can have a bigger importance. So, the mantra and the visualization connected with each empowerment is a minor detail that initially have a great importance for the practitioner of the sadhana but that actually are not that important in the major effort to fully realize the four empowerment's. Anyway, Tara is always Tara no matter how she appear.

/magnus

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"To reject practice by saying, 'it is conceptual!' is the path of fools. A tendency of the inexperienced and something to be avoided."
- Longchenpa


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 Post subject: Re: Different Taras
PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2012 9:42 pm 
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heart wrote:
Konchog1 wrote:
Bardor Rinpoche says that White Tara and Kurukulle are included in the 21 Taras. Also that one can practice one of the 21's mantra separately after a retreat on Green Tara's mantra.

BUT, then why are there separate empowerments and mantras for White Tara and Kurukulle? That seems to imply there is no overlap.


Why would different empowerment's imply that there is no overlap? I don't think that the essence of the four empowerment's are different in a white Tara and a Kurukulle empowerment. In that case I think the what class of Tantra it belongs to can have a bigger importance. So, the mantra and the visualization connected with each empowerment is a minor detail that initially have a great importance for the practitioner of the sadhana but that actually are not that important in the major effort to fully realize the four empowerment's. Anyway, Tara is always Tara no matter how she appear.

/magnus
Oh well, that settles it then.

I still would like a quote to this effect by a Lama though to make sure.

_________________
Equanimity is the ground. Love is the moisture. Compassion is the seed. Bodhicitta is the result.

-Paraphrase of Khensur Rinpoche Lobsang Tsephel citing the Guhyasamaja Tantra

"All memories and thoughts are the union of emptiness and knowing, the Mind.
Without attachment, self-liberating, like a snake in a knot.
Through the qualities of meditating in that way,
Mental obscurations are purified and the dharmakaya is attained."

-Ra Lotsawa, All-pervading Melodious Drumbeats


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 Post subject: Re: Different Taras
PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 11:48 am 
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Certainly the best is if you ask your Lama, I agree.

/magnus

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"To reject practice by saying, 'it is conceptual!' is the path of fools. A tendency of the inexperienced and something to be avoided."
- Longchenpa


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 Post subject: Re: Different Taras
PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 3:42 pm 
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Konchog1 wrote:

BUT, then why are there separate empowerments and mantras for White Tara and Kurukulle?


Different lineages.

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