Sex and the Lama

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Tilopa
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Sex and the Lama

Postby Tilopa » Thu Jul 26, 2012 2:49 am

Here is a thoughtful and intelligent essay on lamas and sexual abuse:

http://mahayanadharma.wordpress.com/201 ... -the-lama/

deepbluehum
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Re: Sex and the Lama

Postby deepbluehum » Thu Jul 26, 2012 4:10 am


Andrew108
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Re: Sex and the Lama

Postby Andrew108 » Thu Jul 26, 2012 2:45 pm

Lamas who are conditioned by both appearances and circumstances do not hold genuine realization. In terms of the karmamudra argument - this is a false argument since both parties have to be of the same realization for the practice to work. It's a practice for spiritual equals.
My view is that if the Lama wants to take desire to the path then great. But it is not actions of desire that are taken to the path it's thoughts and feelings of desire. There is a big difference. So basically there is never a valid reason for a teacher to have sex with a student.
The Blessed One said:

"What is the All? Simply the eye & forms, ear & sounds, nose & aromas, tongue & flavors, body & tactile sensations, intellect & ideas. This, monks, is called the All. Anyone who would say, 'Repudiating this All, I will describe another,' if questioned on what exactly might be the grounds for his statement, would be unable to explain, and furthermore, would be put to grief. Why? Because it lies beyond range." Sabba Sutta.

deepbluehum
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Re: Sex and the Lama

Postby deepbluehum » Thu Jul 26, 2012 4:03 pm


Andrew108
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Re: Sex and the Lama

Postby Andrew108 » Thu Jul 26, 2012 4:56 pm

The Blessed One said:

"What is the All? Simply the eye & forms, ear & sounds, nose & aromas, tongue & flavors, body & tactile sensations, intellect & ideas. This, monks, is called the All. Anyone who would say, 'Repudiating this All, I will describe another,' if questioned on what exactly might be the grounds for his statement, would be unable to explain, and furthermore, would be put to grief. Why? Because it lies beyond range." Sabba Sutta.

Knotty Veneer
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Re: Sex and the Lama

Postby Knotty Veneer » Thu Jul 26, 2012 6:34 pm

“Trump’s grand and vulgar self-absorption is inviting all of us to examine our own selfishness. His ignorance calls us to attend to our own blind spots. The fears that he stokes and the isolation he promotes goad us to be braver, more generous.” - James S. Gordon.

deepbluehum
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Re: Sex and the Lama

Postby deepbluehum » Thu Jul 26, 2012 7:06 pm

Milarepa, Tseringma and her four sisters.

Well all of Guru Rinpoche's consorts were his students. Then he introduced one male student to Yeshe Tsogyal and made her his teacher and consort. That's the tradition. The problem the Tibetans have with Westerners is not being familiar with the culture, who to avoid and who to consort with. Sogyal Rinpoche got caught up in the wrong crowd. If he was consciously or subconsciously going after weak minded women with no loyalty, he was asking for trouble and he got it. He probably rejected her marriage proposal. Also he's a public figure so he's a target, especially for Westerners who are always painting targets on people's backs, playing the victim card, and whining forever. In my opinion, such types don't belong in HYT or Dzogchen and are better suited to sutra practice or lower tantra, and they should shut the F up about HYT because it causes obstacles for themselves. I guarantee you, in a long standing relationship of trust, a teacher and a student can definitely do consort practice. I guarantee you it's happening today and it's going just fine.

Simon E.
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Re: Sex and the Lama

Postby Simon E. » Thu Jul 26, 2012 7:30 pm

Until the court case...
Its exploitation pure and simple.
No different to any other dirty old man who takes advantage.
" My heart's in the Highlands
my heart is not here.
My heart's in the Highlands
chasing the deer."

Robert V.C. Burns.

deepbluehum
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Re: Sex and the Lama

Postby deepbluehum » Thu Jul 26, 2012 8:16 pm


Simon E.
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Re: Sex and the Lama

Postby Simon E. » Thu Jul 26, 2012 9:02 pm

I did for many years, now it just seems in retrospect like a loony bin. Full of people proclaiming themselves to be Napoleon while unable to sustain relationships.
" My heart's in the Highlands
my heart is not here.
My heart's in the Highlands
chasing the deer."

Robert V.C. Burns.

Andrew108
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Re: Sex and the Lama

Postby Andrew108 » Thu Jul 26, 2012 9:08 pm

If the consort has no realization then it's just ordinary sexual activity. The student must be sufficiently awakened and the teacher must know that. Also the consort must have as much knowledge about the practice as the teacher has. If there is a claim of exploitation then you can be sure that it was ordinary sexual activity. If there is a command to secrecy then you can be sure that it was ordinary sexual activity.
The Blessed One said:

"What is the All? Simply the eye & forms, ear & sounds, nose & aromas, tongue & flavors, body & tactile sensations, intellect & ideas. This, monks, is called the All. Anyone who would say, 'Repudiating this All, I will describe another,' if questioned on what exactly might be the grounds for his statement, would be unable to explain, and furthermore, would be put to grief. Why? Because it lies beyond range." Sabba Sutta.

Norwegian
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Re: Sex and the Lama

Postby Norwegian » Thu Jul 26, 2012 9:16 pm

What's the problem with ordinary sex between two consenting adults?

Andrew108
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Re: Sex and the Lama

Postby Andrew108 » Thu Jul 26, 2012 9:53 pm

What's wrong with dualism?
The Blessed One said:

"What is the All? Simply the eye & forms, ear & sounds, nose & aromas, tongue & flavors, body & tactile sensations, intellect & ideas. This, monks, is called the All. Anyone who would say, 'Repudiating this All, I will describe another,' if questioned on what exactly might be the grounds for his statement, would be unable to explain, and furthermore, would be put to grief. Why? Because it lies beyond range." Sabba Sutta.

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Astus
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Re: Sex and the Lama

Postby Astus » Thu Jul 26, 2012 10:18 pm

It is not against law or lay precept to have sex with a student. Lying about the nature of the relationship, however, is deceitful and harmful. If the woman was not cheated by tales of spiritual benefits or promise of love, then there is simply the case of either casual sex or an emotionally balanced relationship.
Myriad dharmas are only mind.
Mind is unobtainable.
What is there to seek?

If the Buddha-Nature is seen,
there will be no seeing of a nature in any thing.

Neither cultivation nor seated meditation —
this is the pure Chan of Tathagata.

With sudden enlightenment to Tathagata Chan,
the six paramitas and myriad means
are complete within that essence.



deepbluehum
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Re: Sex and the Lama

Postby deepbluehum » Thu Jul 26, 2012 10:28 pm


Pema Rigdzin
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Re: Sex and the Lama

Postby Pema Rigdzin » Thu Jul 26, 2012 10:38 pm


Simon E.
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Re: Sex and the Lama

Postby Simon E. » Thu Jul 26, 2012 10:47 pm

" My heart's in the Highlands
my heart is not here.
My heart's in the Highlands
chasing the deer."

Robert V.C. Burns.

Pero
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Joined: Tue Aug 31, 2010 8:54 pm

Re: Sex and the Lama

Postby Pero » Thu Jul 26, 2012 10:51 pm

Although many individuals in this age appear to be merely indulging their worldly desires, one does not have the capacity to judge them, so it is best to train in pure vision.
- Shabkar

Simon E.
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Re: Sex and the Lama

Postby Simon E. » Thu Jul 26, 2012 11:01 pm

No.
There are a range of possibilities other than celibacy or bonking their students.
They might actually have to work at a relationship for example...Like Ato Rinpoche or Chime Rinpoche or nowadays Sogyal Rinpoche.
You know, treat the woman or man as a human being rather than a conduit for their little trip.
" My heart's in the Highlands
my heart is not here.
My heart's in the Highlands
chasing the deer."

Robert V.C. Burns.

Yudron
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Re: Sex and the Lama

Postby Yudron » Fri Jul 27, 2012 1:28 am

Author of Buddhist young adult fiction. Vlogger at Wisdom and Compassion: Grandma Yudron's Totally Chill Vlog on Meditation and Tibetan Wisdom Blogger at Very active on Twitter.


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