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PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 7:09 pm 
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Back on topic. Sometimes a shock is needed to see through our habitual dualistic tendencies. So aversion and renunciation can be appropriate when we are lacking inspiration. If we get a glimpse of non-duality and we are in inspired by this radical depiction of our living experience, then that inspiration should be sustaining enough. We don't have to cling to ideas of rejecting or feelings of aversion. Samsara is never a nice place to be, but if you have some appreciation of Buddha's view then you don't have problems and there is rarely a need for aversion.

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The Blessed One said:

"What is the All? Simply the eye & forms, ear & sounds, nose & aromas, tongue & flavors, body & tactile sensations, intellect & ideas. This, monks, is called the All. Anyone who would say, 'Repudiating this All, I will describe another,' if questioned on what exactly might be the grounds for his statement, would be unable to explain, and furthermore, would be put to grief. Why? Because it lies beyond range." Sabba Sutta.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 7:11 pm 
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Sonny wrote:
It works well enough for me, thanks.
I am in good company too it seems ;) because even Shantideva never had a problem using the word disgust:

"Being praised and such things cause me distraction;
They cause my disgust (with samsara) to disintegrate as well.
I become jealous of those with good qualities,
And that makes me demolish success."

Shantideva, of course, didn't speak or write in English, so would never have used the word "disgust". It would be to useful to know what term he used in his original language.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 7:14 pm 
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dharmagoat wrote:
Sonny wrote:
The disgust I am talking is not like aversion's disturbing emotion and attitude. It does not cause me to lose my peace of mind, nor does it incapacitate me or make me lose self control. This disgust is not an emotion that when it arises, causes me to lose my peace of mind, like aversion does. It does not incapacitate me so that I react negatively. Aversion is based on ignorance. This disgust comes from seeing things as they are, and thus gives rise to compassion and an armor like happy effort.

What you describe as "disgust", I would describe as "disenchantment".


Disenchantment might also be a good word, dharmagoat. :D For me it comes across as a little 'politically correct', but that is just me.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 7:24 pm 
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For what it is worth, in Destructive Emotions: A Scientific Dialogue with The Dalai Lama - His Holiness states - " the spirit of emergence, depends upon the extent to which you have a feeling of intolerance or disgust toward being under the control of the afflictions. One can no longer bare the suffering of samsara, one is disillusioned, even disgusted with it, and that is wholesome and constructive. "


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 7:49 pm 
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Sonny wrote:
For what it is worth, in Destructive Emotions: A Scientific Dialogue with The Dalai Lama - His Holiness states - " the spirit of emergence, depends upon the extent to which you have a feeling of intolerance or disgust toward being under the control of the afflictions. One can no longer bare the suffering of samsara, one is disillusioned, even disgusted with it, and that is wholesome and constructive. "

Point taken, at least where the Dalai Lama is concerned.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2012 9:53 am 
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Aversion is ones own pain. I just got some words, I hope I can share them, which expresses the need to understand aversion by oneself, since we usually can do that smoothly by others. As long as there is aversion toward phenomena in own being, there is the suffering created wall and on both sides the extremes, clinging.
Wratful actions then, are based on the loving wish others realize their nature, based on knowing how they appear and how they are.
:anjali:

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 03, 2012 6:34 am 
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Posts: 365
the other day one of my facebook friend posted this quote from Dzongsar Khyentse Rinpoche:

Quote:
the noble wealth of feeling sad about this life

When a bodhisattva visited Buddha – it is in the Prajnaparamita Sutra – and the bodhisattva complaint to the Buddha, saying: I feel so sad, I feel so sad about this meaningless life and all of that. And it is almost painful. Then Buddha: this is a noble wealth, you have so much merit that is why you are feeling sad about these things. When you don’t have that merit you will be distracted to all this gadgets and think this is life.

-Dzongsar Khyentse Rinpoche

Love and Relationships, Singapore April 2012 (podcast 18)


I think this illustrates very nicely what quite a few have already said in this discussion.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 03, 2012 8:27 am 
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Location: Bangkok Thailand
:smile:
This poem is from a book of Vietnamese Zen imspired poetry you can find on'line at:

http://www.quangduc.com/English/Zen/38zenpoem.html

Zen Master MAN GIAC (LY TRUONG)
(1052-1096)
English

Confessing To Falling Ill

When spring passes, a hundred flowers fall.

When spring arrives, a hundred flowers wave.

The world glides past our eyes.

Time scatters its dust over our heads.

Don’t say when spring passes, all flowers fade.

Only last night, in the courtyard, an apricot bloomed.

(translated by) Kevin Bowen and Nguyen Ba Chung

----------------------
Without death, breakdown, and destruction...where would there be room for the new to start?
It's always been that way....don't expect it to change now.
:smile:

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Shame on you Shakyamuni for setting the precedent of leaving home.
Did you think it was not there--
in your wife's lovely face
in your baby's laughter?
Did you think you had to go elsewhere (simply) to find it?
from - Judyth Collin
The Layman's Lament
From What Book, 1998, p. 52
Edited by Gary Gach


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