YOU CANNOT POST. OUR WEB HOSTING COMPANY DECIDED TO MOVE THE SERVER TO ANOTHER LOCATION. IN THE MEANTIME, YOU CAN VIEW THIS VERSION WHICH DOES NOT ALLOW POSTING AND WILL NOT SAVE ANYTHING YOU DO ONCE THE OTHER SERVER GOES ONLINE.

"Enlightened in regard to all things" - Page 2 - Dhamma Wheel

"Enlightened in regard to all things"

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
User avatar
kirk5a
Posts: 1959
Joined: Thu Sep 23, 2010 1:51 pm

Re: "Enlightened in regard to all things"

Postby kirk5a » Tue Feb 22, 2011 9:24 pm

Fair enough. I just wondered whether if we interpret that sutta on "the all" as:

"the six sense bases as well as their corresponding sense objects contains everything there is"

... if it's quite right to restate it that way.
"When one thing is practiced & pursued, ignorance is abandoned, clear knowing arises, the conceit 'I am' is abandoned, latent tendencies are uprooted, fetters are abandoned. Which one thing? Mindfulness immersed in the body." -AN 1.230

User avatar
kirk5a
Posts: 1959
Joined: Thu Sep 23, 2010 1:51 pm

Re: "Enlightened in regard to all things"

Postby kirk5a » Tue Feb 22, 2011 9:26 pm

"When one thing is practiced & pursued, ignorance is abandoned, clear knowing arises, the conceit 'I am' is abandoned, latent tendencies are uprooted, fetters are abandoned. Which one thing? Mindfulness immersed in the body." -AN 1.230

User avatar
acinteyyo
Posts: 1684
Joined: Mon Jun 01, 2009 9:48 am
Location: Bavaria / Germany

Re: "Enlightened in regard to all things"

Postby acinteyyo » Tue Feb 22, 2011 9:38 pm

Thag 1.20. Ajita - I do not fear death; nor do I long for life. I’ll lay down this body, aware and mindful.

User avatar
kirk5a
Posts: 1959
Joined: Thu Sep 23, 2010 1:51 pm

Re: "Enlightened in regard to all things"

Postby kirk5a » Tue Feb 22, 2011 11:17 pm

(This just popped into my head, sorry.)

And I get so tired when I have to explain
When you're so far away from me
See you've been in the sun and I've been in the rain
And you're so far away from me

So far away from me
So far I just can't see
So far away from me
You're so far away from me... all right.

Dire straits. :smile:
"When one thing is practiced & pursued, ignorance is abandoned, clear knowing arises, the conceit 'I am' is abandoned, latent tendencies are uprooted, fetters are abandoned. Which one thing? Mindfulness immersed in the body." -AN 1.230

User avatar
Sherab
Posts: 163
Joined: Tue Jun 29, 2010 3:53 am

Re: "Enlightened in regard to all things"

Postby Sherab » Wed Feb 23, 2011 2:37 am

Here's a summary of what I see to be a problem:

If "the All" is confined only to whatever we can experience directly with our five senses and indirectly by the mind through the five senses (eg magnetic fields), then "the All" is confined to only the present experiences since the past is no longer there to be experienced and the future has not arrived as yet to be experienced. Thus, the Buddha's claim of being enlightened in regard of all things excludes the past and the future. If so, the Buddha's ability to see the past and the future is false. If the Buddha's ability to see the past and future is true, then the definition/interpretation of "the All" is called into question.

And the above have not even touch on where the consciousness without surface brought up by kirk5a resides within "the All".

User avatar
ground
Posts: 2591
Joined: Wed Nov 25, 2009 6:01 am

Re: "Enlightened in regard to all things"

Postby ground » Wed Feb 23, 2011 3:10 am


User avatar
tiltbillings
Posts: 23012
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 9:25 am

Re: "Enlightened in regard to all things"

Postby tiltbillings » Wed Feb 23, 2011 3:19 am


User avatar
ground
Posts: 2591
Joined: Wed Nov 25, 2009 6:01 am

Re: "Enlightened in regard to all things"

Postby ground » Wed Feb 23, 2011 3:24 am


User avatar
ground
Posts: 2591
Joined: Wed Nov 25, 2009 6:01 am

Re: "Enlightened in regard to all things"

Postby ground » Wed Feb 23, 2011 3:37 am

I feel that if we restrict the meaning of "enlightened in regard to all things" to the context of cause and effect in the context of dukkha then "enlightened in regard to all things" may capture the theravadan view and Sherab presuppositions regarding this expression may be recogized as invalid and/or speculative ... which then of course also applies to my response above. Why? Because in both Sherab's approach and my response there is a bias towards "knowing things" which necessarily neglects "knowing dukkha, its causes, the end of dukkha and the way to end dukkha" (at least to some degree ... which may be significant).

Kind regards

User avatar
Sherab
Posts: 163
Joined: Tue Jun 29, 2010 3:53 am

Re: "Enlightened in regard to all things"

Postby Sherab » Wed Feb 23, 2011 4:01 am


User avatar
ground
Posts: 2591
Joined: Wed Nov 25, 2009 6:01 am

Re: "Enlightened in regard to all things"

Postby ground » Wed Feb 23, 2011 4:21 am


User avatar
Sherab
Posts: 163
Joined: Tue Jun 29, 2010 3:53 am

Re: "Enlightened in regard to all things"

Postby Sherab » Wed Feb 23, 2011 4:32 am


User avatar
ground
Posts: 2591
Joined: Wed Nov 25, 2009 6:01 am

Re: "Enlightened in regard to all things"

Postby ground » Wed Feb 23, 2011 4:37 am


User avatar
ground
Posts: 2591
Joined: Wed Nov 25, 2009 6:01 am

Re: "Enlightened in regard to all things"

Postby ground » Wed Feb 23, 2011 4:55 am

Of course one may ask:
If "the All" is all then why did the Buddha teach more than that?

The answer is: Because he was "enlightened in regard to all things" which includes the capacities of his disciples, their specifically colored dukkha, their specifically colored causes and what is required for them to end it (i.e. the noble 8fold path).


Kind regards

User avatar
Sherab
Posts: 163
Joined: Tue Jun 29, 2010 3:53 am

Re: "Enlightened in regard to all things"

Postby Sherab » Wed Feb 23, 2011 5:45 am

TMingyur,

Help me out please. Stop participating in this thread. I am really looking for responses from people who are much more familiar with the Pali canon than you.

Thank you.

User avatar
ground
Posts: 2591
Joined: Wed Nov 25, 2009 6:01 am

Re: "Enlightened in regard to all things"

Postby ground » Wed Feb 23, 2011 7:39 am


User avatar
beeblebrox
Posts: 939
Joined: Thu Dec 31, 2009 10:41 pm

Re: "Enlightened in regard to all things"

Postby beeblebrox » Wed Feb 23, 2011 1:10 pm


User avatar
acinteyyo
Posts: 1684
Joined: Mon Jun 01, 2009 9:48 am
Location: Bavaria / Germany

Re: "Enlightened in regard to all things"

Postby acinteyyo » Wed Feb 23, 2011 5:47 pm

Thag 1.20. Ajita - I do not fear death; nor do I long for life. I’ll lay down this body, aware and mindful.

User avatar
beeblebrox
Posts: 939
Joined: Thu Dec 31, 2009 10:41 pm

Re: "Enlightened in regard to all things"

Postby beeblebrox » Wed Feb 23, 2011 7:36 pm



Return to “General Theravāda discussion”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Kim OHara and 64 guests

Google Saffron, Theravada Search Engine

cron