Dorje Drolo and Vajrakilaya

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Malcolm
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Re: Dorje Drolo and Vajrakilaya

Postby Malcolm » Tue Jul 24, 2012 2:10 pm





འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


Free of hope and fear, relax.
Human life spent in
a state of great spaciousness is enjoyable.


— Kunzang Dechen Lingpa

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Re: Dorje Drolo and Vajrakilaya

Postby kirtu » Tue Jul 24, 2012 4:02 pm



"Even if you practice only for an hour a day with faith and inspiration, good qualities will steadily increase. Regular practice makes it easy to transform your mind. From seeing only relative truth, you will eventually reach a profound certainty in the meaning of absolute truth."
Kyabje Dilgo Khyentse Rinpoche.

"Only you can make your mind beautiful."
HH Chetsang Rinpoche

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Re: Dorje Drolo and Vajrakilaya

Postby dakini_boi » Tue Jul 24, 2012 4:47 pm


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Re: Dorje Drolo and Vajrakilaya

Postby heart » Tue Jul 24, 2012 5:09 pm

"We are all here to help each other go through this thing, whatever it is."
~Kurt Vonnegut

"The principal practice is Guruyoga. But we need to understand that any secondary practice combined with Guruyoga becomes a principal practice." ChNNR (Teachings on Thun and Ganapuja)

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Malcolm
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Re: Dorje Drolo and Vajrakilaya

Postby Malcolm » Tue Jul 24, 2012 7:43 pm





འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


Free of hope and fear, relax.
Human life spent in
a state of great spaciousness is enjoyable.


— Kunzang Dechen Lingpa

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Re: Dorje Drolo and Vajrakilaya

Postby mutsuk » Tue Jul 24, 2012 8:39 pm


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Malcolm
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Re: Dorje Drolo and Vajrakilaya

Postby Malcolm » Tue Jul 24, 2012 8:56 pm





འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


Free of hope and fear, relax.
Human life spent in
a state of great spaciousness is enjoyable.


— Kunzang Dechen Lingpa

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Re: Dorje Drolo and Vajrakilaya

Postby zangskar » Tue Jul 24, 2012 9:15 pm


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Re: Dorje Drolo and Vajrakilaya

Postby mutsuk » Tue Jul 24, 2012 9:41 pm

I don't think so, he is always depicted as a white figure, peaceful, etc. I unfortunately haven't succeeded in uploading the tsaklis I wanted to include here but the 7 of them all show him in the same way. There is no tiger anywhere around him and he is always depicted in a human form. There must have been a mistake with the identification with a tigress.

Furthermore, if he is a well-known figure in Bön, he does not appear much outside the dBal-chen Ge-khod and Zhang-zhung Meri cycles. I of course have not read all Bön tantric cycles but I'm browsing through JL's gigantic files on Bön and Ati Muwer ("King of the Supreme Sky" in Zz language) shows reference entries only for Ge-khod and Me-ri. Furthermore, in these cycles he is well-known as one of the three Protectors (mGon-po rnam-gsum): Bon-sku Atimuwer, rDzogs-sku Ku-byi mang-ke, and sPrul-sku Zhang-zhung Me-ri. You thus have a peaceful Dharmakaya form (always in white), a peaceful sambhogakaya form of Ku-byi mang-khe (resembling Manjushri, various forms and colors), and a wrathful nirmanakaya. No tigers around.

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Malcolm
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Re: Dorje Drolo and Vajrakilaya

Postby Malcolm » Tue Jul 24, 2012 10:17 pm





འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


Free of hope and fear, relax.
Human life spent in
a state of great spaciousness is enjoyable.


— Kunzang Dechen Lingpa

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Re: Dorje Drolo and Vajrakilaya

Postby mutsuk » Wed Jul 25, 2012 11:30 am

Maybe, but then you should understand that it's not the way it is for Bonpos. Ati Muwer is a peaceful dharmakaya form. THere is no other Ati Muwer in Bon...and no tiger around him.

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Malcolm
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Re: Dorje Drolo and Vajrakilaya

Postby Malcolm » Wed Jul 25, 2012 1:29 pm





འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


Free of hope and fear, relax.
Human life spent in
a state of great spaciousness is enjoyable.


— Kunzang Dechen Lingpa

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Re: Dorje Drolo and Vajrakilaya

Postby deepbluehum » Wed Jul 25, 2012 2:24 pm


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Re: Dorje Drolo and Vajrakilaya

Postby pemachophel » Wed Jul 25, 2012 4:01 pm

The story I read in Bhutan when getting ready to visit Parao Taktshang was that Guru Rinpoche and Yeshe Tshogyal were in eastern Tibet practicing in retreat there. Yeshe Tshogyal saw that there were demons in western Bhutan that needed subduing. She urged Guru Rinpoche to go and do something about this. He did not. Yeshe Tshogyal got more and more impatient and insistent. She eventually transformed into a tigress to fly to western Bhutan to do something Herself. At that point, Guru Rinpoche mounted the tigress and They flew together to Paro Taktshang, etc., etc., etc. However, I also think I have heard that the tigress was a Bon deity (possibly from Lama Dawa Chodak).

Seems like there are different versions of the explanation of Dorje Drolo's tigress mount. :namaste:
Pema Chophel པདྨ་ཆོས་འཕེལ

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Malcolm
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Re: Dorje Drolo and Vajrakilaya

Postby Malcolm » Wed Jul 25, 2012 4:21 pm





འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


Free of hope and fear, relax.
Human life spent in
a state of great spaciousness is enjoyable.


— Kunzang Dechen Lingpa

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Re: Dorje Drolo and Vajrakilaya

Postby username » Wed Jul 25, 2012 4:57 pm

The last time the tigress was seen at Paro Taktsang (Tigress Nest) temple in Bhutan in a terma vision (we know of) was by the previous Trungpa Rinpoche. Dilgo Khyentse Rinpoche via his student the then Queen mother of Bhutan, and Paro's abbot, arranged so Trungpa could visit as he knew Trungpa would be getting a terma. The Padmasambhava form of Dorje Drollo appeared with the face of Karmapa 16th who was one of his gurus and bestowed the terma, later presented to Dilgo Khyentse. The tigress was there too.

A tiger was seen prior to temple construction in that impossible/impassable location often. There are three accounts of the tigress which can all be true. The locals believe it is Yeshe Tsogyal as the main vehicle of the guru. Others say it is a wisdom dakini. Thirdly I have heard a few lamas, including ChNNR, say it was a local protectress that was subdued and brought under oath by the master and also became a high follower of the path, not just subdued under oath. She might then have become an enlightened dakini or female being inseparable from Yesh Tsogyal too manifesting as a strong angry young lusty tigress and vehicle for the guru. So one or more of the accounts could all be true. As the Bhutan Beyuls like Paro were not originally Buddhist, the local protectress in her previous form might be called Bon in Tibet. ChNNR specifically said people organizing and inviting him for teaching around the world are specially advised to do Dorje Drollo. I guess at least specially before, during & After his visits to overcome provocations. He was sad about this, for a certain reason I will not discuss, and said he thought Guru Dragpur might be enough in such cases but Drollo is needed too to deal with certain type of provocations.

http://www.bhutanmajestictravel.com/abo ... igers-nest
http://www.chronicleproject.com/stories_110.html
Dzogchen masters I know say: 1)Buddhist religion essence is Dzogchen 2)Religions are positive by intent/fruit 3)Any method's OK unless: breaking Dzogchen vows, mixed as syncretic (Milanese Soup) 4)Don't join mandalas of opponents of Dalai Lama/Padmasambhava: False Deity inventors by encouraging victims 5)Don't debate Ati with others 6)Don't discuss Ati practices online 7) A master told his old disciple: no one's to discuss his teaching with some others on a former forum nor mention him. Publicity's OK, questions are asked from masters/set teachers in person/email/non-public forums~Best wishes

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Re: Dorje Drolo and Vajrakilaya

Postby zangskar » Wed Jul 25, 2012 5:06 pm


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Re: Dorje Drolo and Vajrakilaya

Postby username » Wed Jul 25, 2012 5:20 pm

Yeshe Tsogyal, Mandarava, Shakyadevi, Kalasiddhi & Tashi Khyedin are from the same basis and really the same though different accounts have different sources Vajravarahi/Saraswati/Tara and ultimately Samantabhadri. They are the 5 emanations (body, speech, mind, quality & Activity) of that being to help Padmasambhava as he requested help in Sambhogakaya before emanating which was granted him and they merged there prior to setting out. with the Bhutanese princess student of Yeshe Tsogyal, Tashi Khyedin, who became inseparable from the guru as his retreat consort at Paro, being the activity emanation. They are all the same basis emanation.
Dzogchen masters I know say: 1)Buddhist religion essence is Dzogchen 2)Religions are positive by intent/fruit 3)Any method's OK unless: breaking Dzogchen vows, mixed as syncretic (Milanese Soup) 4)Don't join mandalas of opponents of Dalai Lama/Padmasambhava: False Deity inventors by encouraging victims 5)Don't debate Ati with others 6)Don't discuss Ati practices online 7) A master told his old disciple: no one's to discuss his teaching with some others on a former forum nor mention him. Publicity's OK, questions are asked from masters/set teachers in person/email/non-public forums~Best wishes

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Malcolm
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Re: Dorje Drolo and Vajrakilaya

Postby Malcolm » Wed Jul 25, 2012 5:24 pm





འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


Free of hope and fear, relax.
Human life spent in
a state of great spaciousness is enjoyable.


— Kunzang Dechen Lingpa

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Re: Dorje Drolo and Vajrakilaya

Postby username » Wed Jul 25, 2012 5:27 pm

Dzogchen masters I know say: 1)Buddhist religion essence is Dzogchen 2)Religions are positive by intent/fruit 3)Any method's OK unless: breaking Dzogchen vows, mixed as syncretic (Milanese Soup) 4)Don't join mandalas of opponents of Dalai Lama/Padmasambhava: False Deity inventors by encouraging victims 5)Don't debate Ati with others 6)Don't discuss Ati practices online 7) A master told his old disciple: no one's to discuss his teaching with some others on a former forum nor mention him. Publicity's OK, questions are asked from masters/set teachers in person/email/non-public forums~Best wishes


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