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PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2012 4:42 pm 
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These are Dzochen quotes by the great Longhenpa. The reader would be unwise to think there is no path. The only way to realize there is no path is by being on the path. The path is the realization. And the realization is none other than the path. One cannot just jump directly into Dzogchen the Ultimate truth, This is the highest view and or realization possible, it is only possible after years of practice in compassion and selflessness.

'How could anyone be 'liberated'?
How could anyone be lost in samsara?
Reality is free of all delimitation!
Freedom is timeless, so constantly present;freedom is natural, so unconditional;
Freedom is direct, so pure vision obtains;
Freedom is unbounded, so no identity possible;
Freedom is unitary, so multiplicity is consumed.
Conduct changes nothing
Our lives are already free!
Meditation achieves nothing
Our minds are already free!the view realizes nothing
All dogma is freedom!
Fruition demands nothing
We are free as we are!

Longchenpa

Buddhist Centre Miami http://www.facebook.com/pages/Miami-FL/ ... 4766056322


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2012 4:45 pm 
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The First Essential Point

First there is the method for introducing the individual to the view that had not been
introduced previously. In general, according to the Lakshanayana, one systematically
establishes the view by means of various authoritative scriptural traditions and by reasoning. Again, according to the usual approach of the Secret Mantra system, having relied upon the knowledge of the example which is indicated during the third initiation, one is introduced to actual knowledge of primal awareness in the fourth initiation. There exist many systems for this. However, here the method of the Holy Gurus of the Siddha Lineage is to introduce directly the nature of mind by way of the dissolving of all mental activities.

Furthermore, at those times when the confused and turbulent waves of deluded
thoughts overwhelm the individual, gross discursive thoughts that pursue and follow after their objects will come to obscure the true face of the nature of mind, Thus, even though one has been introduced previously to it, one will not recognize the nature of mind, For that reason, one must first allow those gross discursive thoughts to settle down and the mind to become clear. So, it says in the text: "First, allow one's own mind to settle into a relaxed state...".Nevertheless, one's own mind, when it is allowed simply to settle down without making any attempt to modify it, becomes in itself just that knowledge or primal awareness which is the Clear Light.

The Second Essential Point

If one settles oneself into a state of meditation that is like the continuous flowing of a river, and at all times remains without attempting to create or stop anything or trying to develop thoughts or to calm them down, then this represents the real nature of the Dharmakaya. When thoughts begin to proliferate and develop, one should just continue in this condition of inherent creative energy or potentiality of primal awareness. Therefore, it says in the text: "Whether thoughts are proliferating or remaining in a calm state, this is perfectly all right."

Moreover, from the power of the creative energy or potentiality of thoughts in the
mind arise the various passions, such as anger and desire, which represent the Truth of Origination, as well as reactive feelings, such as happiness and sorrow, which represent the Truth of Suffering, Yet if one is aware that the inherent nature of all of these discursive thoughts is just the Dharmata itself, then they will be transformed into the state of the
Dharmakaya.

The Third Essential Point
The essential point of the practice is that, no matter what thoughts arise,
they be allowed to enter freely into their arising without trying to suppress them or prevent them from arising in any way, and also that whatever thoughts may arise be carried along through the process of purifying them into their natural state, by allowing them to freely dissolve back into the empty state out of which they originally arose. Hence, it says in the text: "There is no discontinuity between the self-arising of thoughts and their selfliberation."

In that way, discursive thoughts are purified through the creative energy of the
Dharmakaya. Thus, whenever thoughts arise, they arise inherently purified by way of the inherent potentiality of the presence of intrinsic Awareness. However gross may be the thoughts produced in the mind giving expression to the five passions, that much stronger and clearer will be the awareness present at their liberation. Thus, it says in the text: "Whatever arises in the mind becomes the food for naked empty Awareness."


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 4:26 am 
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Phantom59 wrote: "The reader would be unwise to think there is no path. The only way to realize there is no path is by being on the path. The path is the realization. And the realization is none other than the path. One cannot just jump directly into Dzogchen the Ultimate truth, This is the highest view and or realization possible, it is only possible after years of practice in compassion and selflessness."

ahdonooo :smile:

Phantom59 is exactly correct from his view of Dzogchen. Perhaps there are other views.

Had the great good fortune to attend 2 days of Teachings by Venerable Anam Thubten ( he asks that you do not call him Rinpoche)
this last weekend.

http://www.dharmata.org

He starts with pointing out, the middle is pointing out and the end is pointing out: a little watching the breath, some Dhammapada, a little Prajnaparamita, and dedication in English, but 100 per cent pure pointing out.

Now maybe the 100 or so folks in each different venue were old time practitioners, or had previous life connections with Venerable Mr. Thubten, but I don't think so.

Didn't hear the word Dzogchen once - nobody missed it. Seemed like everybody "got" the pointing out.

People could pay what they wanted to - it wasn't about the money.

"Dzogchen Teaching by Khunkhyen Longchenpa."


:heart:


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 26, 2012 11:57 am 
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From website here above: http://www.dharmata.org/teachings/

:woohoo:

A the end we have retirement from serving and benefitting our selves, completely exhausted to do so.

Thank you!

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iG_lNuNUVd4


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2012 12:22 pm 
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muni wrote:
From website here above: http://www.dharmata.org/teachings/

:woohoo:

A the end we have retirement from serving and benefitting our selves, completely exhausted to do so.

Thank you!


Old age, sickness and death - not so bad.

:heart:


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2012 11:36 am 
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phantom59 wrote:
These are Dzochen quotes by the great Longhenpa. The reader would be unwise to think there is no path. The only way to realize there is no path is by being on the path. The path is the realization. And the realization is none other than the path. One cannot just jump directly into Dzogchen the Ultimate truth, This is the highest view and or realization possible, it is only possible after years of practice in compassion and selflessness.

Those also are the words of great Longchenpa:
Quote:
"I embrace all and everything,
so there can be no path that leads to me;"

One cannot be outside of it, so looking for it is futile and Dukkha generating. What is sought is and of seeking.

Quote:
"There is no single state which is not this vast state of presence.
It is the site and home of everything.
So remain in this which cannot be constructed or taken apart.
Here it is not necessary to progress gradually or to purify anything."

No "years of practice" are necessary, still they may be helpful for some.

Quote:
"Because what appears never becomes what it seems to be and is intrinsically free,
By realizing how things are you are freed without having to meditate on emptiness."

Neither practice selflessness.

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Say what you think about me here.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2012 3:06 pm 
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oushi wrote:
Quote:
"There is no single state which is not this vast state of presence.
It is the site and home of everything.
So remain in this which cannot be constructed or taken apart.
Here it is not necessary to progress gradually or to purify anything."

No "years of practice" are necessary, still they may be helpful for some.


Can you remain in "this which cannot be constructed or taken apart" constantly, day and night, oushi? If not "years of practice" are necessary.

/magnus

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"To reject practice by saying, 'it is conceptual!' is the path of fools. A tendency of the inexperienced and something to be avoided."
- Longchenpa


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2012 4:13 pm 
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The obvious answer is that he can't. So does this help any Magnus? So you are right,. But does this help? No one has any genuine knowledge or valid experience of their nature. Right? In fact let's go the whole way and say that realization isn't possible. Right? Or let's say we have to wait for 50 years.
All these posts do is confirm your status. They are status promoting posts. Such a man thing to do. I'm personally tired of posting here because more often than not it becomes a pissing contest.

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The Blessed One said:

"What is the All? Simply the eye & forms, ear & sounds, nose & aromas, tongue & flavors, body & tactile sensations, intellect & ideas. This, monks, is called the All. Anyone who would say, 'Repudiating this All, I will describe another,' if questioned on what exactly might be the grounds for his statement, would be unable to explain, and furthermore, would be put to grief. Why? Because it lies beyond range." Sabba Sutta.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2012 4:37 pm 
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Andrew108 wrote:
The obvious answer is that he can't. So does this help any Magnus? So you are right,. But does this help? No one has any genuine knowledge or valid experience of their nature. Right? In fact let's go the whole way and say that realization isn't possible. Right? Or let's say we have to wait for 50 years.
All these posts do is confirm your status. They are status promoting posts. Such a man thing to do. I'm personally tired of posting here because more often than not it becomes a pissing contest.


The text of Longchenpa is written from the realization of the natural state but that doesn't mean that you can't experience natural state right here and now even if you have not gained full realization, in fact that is what Dzogchen practice is. I am just trying to bring in some reality check in these discussions. I have no status here at all and I am not interested in pissing contests, but I think I am allowed to an opinion, no?

/magnus

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"To reject practice by saying, 'it is conceptual!' is the path of fools. A tendency of the inexperienced and something to be avoided."
- Longchenpa


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2012 4:56 pm 
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Magnus,
Even a glimpse of the natural state clears away suffering. Even the tiniest amount of Dzogchen knowledge burns away neurosis and mental torment. Even a glimpse is infinitely useful. That's the reality. So you yourself don't need to give a reality check. If anything you should celebrate the fact that someone is interested and inspired by beautiful Dzogchen. Even a glimpse of beautiful Dzogchen means so much. Your opinions are valid but don't turn people off.

_________________
The Blessed One said:

"What is the All? Simply the eye & forms, ear & sounds, nose & aromas, tongue & flavors, body & tactile sensations, intellect & ideas. This, monks, is called the All. Anyone who would say, 'Repudiating this All, I will describe another,' if questioned on what exactly might be the grounds for his statement, would be unable to explain, and furthermore, would be put to grief. Why? Because it lies beyond range." Sabba Sutta.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2012 5:39 pm 
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Andrew108 wrote:
Magnus,
Even a glimpse of the natural state clears away suffering. Even the tiniest amount of Dzogchen knowledge burns away neurosis and mental torment. Even a glimpse is infinitely useful. That's the reality. So you yourself don't need to give a reality check. If anything you should celebrate the fact that someone is interested and inspired by beautiful Dzogchen. Even a glimpse of beautiful Dzogchen means so much. Your opinions are valid but don't turn people off.


Of course it is like that, where have I said it is otherwise? I think you are reading in some stuff I don't say in my posts.

/magnus

_________________
"To reject practice by saying, 'it is conceptual!' is the path of fools. A tendency of the inexperienced and something to be avoided."
- Longchenpa


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2012 5:46 pm 
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heart wrote:
oushi wrote:
Quote:
"There is no single state which is not this vast state of presence.
It is the site and home of everything.
So remain in this which cannot be constructed or taken apart.
Here it is not necessary to progress gradually or to purify anything."

No "years of practice" are necessary, still they may be helpful for some.


Can you remain in "this which cannot be constructed or taken apart" constantly, day and night, oushi? If not "years of practice" are necessary.

/magnus

Yes of course.
Read carefully the first sentence: "There is no single state which is not this vast state of presence". The problem is not in finding the place, but in stopping looking for something that always is. Longchenpa also said:"Any specific insight into rigpa is always deluded."
Although the place does appear differently, it doesn't differ at all. It just lacks looking, even if you are looking. There is not slightest difference between samsara and nirvana.

_________________
Say what you think about me here.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2012 5:54 pm 
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oushi wrote:
heart wrote:

Can you remain in "this which cannot be constructed or taken apart" constantly, day and night, oushi? If not "years of practice" are necessary.

/magnus

Yes of course.
Read carefully the first sentence: "There is no single state which is not this vast state of presence". The problem is not in finding the place, but in stopping looking for something that always is. Longchenpa also said:"Any specific insight into rigpa is always deluded."
Although the place does appear differently, it doesn't differ at all. It just lacks looking, even if you are looking. There is not slightest difference between samsara and nirvana.


True, just the way you put it sounded like "years of practice" was somehow obscuring the natural and spontaneously present natural state. All practice is about just that.

/magnus

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"To reject practice by saying, 'it is conceptual!' is the path of fools. A tendency of the inexperienced and something to be avoided."
- Longchenpa


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2012 8:54 pm 
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Andrew108 wrote:
I'm personally tired of posting here because more often than not it becomes a pissing contest.


Well it is the dzogchen subforum.

:roll:


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2012 9:26 pm 
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To clarify a little, all practice is just about recognizing the natural state.

/magnus

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"To reject practice by saying, 'it is conceptual!' is the path of fools. A tendency of the inexperienced and something to be avoided."
- Longchenpa


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2012 2:51 am 
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Andrew108 wrote:

Even a glimpse of the natural state clears away suffering. Even the tiniest amount of Dzogchen knowledge burns away neurosis and mental torment.


Of course there is no suffering or neurosis or mental torment during the glimpse of rigpa. And of course each glimpse reduces the strength of these negative mental habits. But one glimpse (or several glimpses, even) doesn't burn this stuff up completely. A far greater stability in rigpa is necessary for that to be one's reality.


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