Magic and superstition

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Magic and superstition

Postby GarcherLancelot » Fri Jul 06, 2012 12:02 pm

I am pretty sure Buddha discourage people from believing in superstitions or performing "spells",the thing is how do we draw the line between spells and superstition(for example feng shui,LoA,tarot etc.)?I am not interested in any "magic" to bring me wealth or anything like that ,but I read New Age and other stuffs,sometimes I just fulfill some of my rituals and someitmes I forgot about them,I wonder does it have any credibility or is it just pure superstition?
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Re: Magic and superstition

Postby Yangtso » Fri Jul 06, 2012 7:08 pm

Love that line from Shrek 4 "a contract is a binding spell".
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Re: Magic and superstition

Postby Josef » Fri Jul 06, 2012 7:18 pm

We should work with our assumptions just as much as we work with our superstitions.
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Re: Magic and superstition

Postby Konchog1 » Fri Jul 06, 2012 11:42 pm

Josef wrote:We should work with our assumptions just as much as we work with our superstitions.
Not that there's a difference between the two :)
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Without attachment, self-liberating, like a snake in a knot.
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Re: Magic and superstition

Postby dharmagoat » Sat Jul 07, 2012 12:15 am

Konchog1 wrote:
Josef wrote:We should work with our assumptions just as much as we work with our superstitions.

Not that there's a difference between the two :)

Cher bro.
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Re: Magic and superstition

Postby GarcherLancelot » Sat Jul 07, 2012 2:15 am

I am trying to steer myself from superstition by reminding myself about Buddha's words about Wrong Views lol.
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Re: Magic and superstition

Postby Yudron » Sun Jul 08, 2012 2:47 pm

GarcherLancelot wrote:I am pretty sure Buddha discourage people from believing in superstitions or performing "spells",the thing is how do we draw the line between spells and superstition(for example feng shui,LoA,tarot etc.)?I am not interested in any "magic" to bring me wealth or anything like that ,but I read New Age and other stuffs,sometimes I just fulfill some of my rituals and someitmes I forgot about them,I wonder does it have any credibility or is it just pure superstition?


Lots of Buddhist traditions have magic, rituals and spells associated with them. Most people like this stuff. I'm not sure what you mean about credibility vs. superstition because I don't know what kind of rituals you are talking about.

Bottom line is, life is short and most people waste it frittering away time on lots of interests that have nothing to do with becoming enlightened. New age pursuits generally fall into the same category to me as watching a lot of TV -- a waste of precious time that could be spent practicing the Dharma.
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Re: Magic and superstition

Postby GarcherLancelot » Fri Jul 13, 2012 5:03 pm

Hmm,how to make sure you did not curse anyone or something or some action by thinking about it,it doesn't workthrough law of attraction or something like that right?
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Re: Magic and superstition

Postby pemachophel » Fri Jul 13, 2012 8:01 pm

Garcher,

Which Buddha's words? Buddha Shakyamuni as recorded in the foundational sutras (i.e., First Turning of the Wheel), Buddha Shakyamuni and other Buddhas in the Mahayana sutras (i.e., Second Turning of the Wheel), or Buddha Shakymuni and other Buddhas in the tantras (i.e., the Third Turning of the Wheel)? This is a very important distinction and it's good to be clear about this. :namaste:
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Re: Magic and superstition

Postby Challenge23 » Fri Jul 13, 2012 9:04 pm

To me I think that spells, magic, superstition, and what not seem to fulfill a significant hunger in the human psyche. Like a taste for sweet or salty things. However, just like a taste for sweet or salty things if you aren't super careful you can unwisely indulge and hurt yourself.

And lastly, magic of pretty much any school is about as useful to achieving Enlightenment as a pecan pie. Which is to say, not very.
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Re: Magic and superstition

Postby GarcherLancelot » Sat Jul 14, 2012 1:19 am

pemachophel wrote:Garcher,

Which Buddha's words? Buddha Shakyamuni as recorded in the foundational sutras (i.e., First Turning of the Wheel), Buddha Shakyamuni and other Buddhas in the Mahayana sutras (i.e., Second Turning of the Wheel), or Buddha Shakymuni and other Buddhas in the tantras (i.e., the Third Turning of the Wheel)? This is a very important distinction and it's good to be clear about this. :namaste:



From theravada I think,the Buddha said something about one with Wrong View after death reborn in the lower realms,something along those lines IIRC.
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Re: Magic and superstition

Postby pemachophel » Sat Jul 14, 2012 3:37 pm

And as Mahayanists, we pray not to be reborn as sravakas and Pratekya Buddhas. "Different strokes..."

Practice well and best wishes. :namaste:
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Re: Magic and superstition

Postby GarcherLancelot » Sat Jul 14, 2012 5:14 pm

GarcherLancelot wrote:Hmm,how to make sure you did not curse anyone or something or some action by thinking about it,it doesn't workthrough law of attraction or something like that right?

does anyone know who I can get an answer for this?
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Re: Magic and superstition

Postby Jeff » Sat Jul 14, 2012 6:50 pm

Curses rarely have any effect unless the recieving person "accepts" the curse. Random thoughts can be sometimes manifested, but usually only with great stillness & energy. There is no real stillness with negative thoughts, so it is mostly self limiting.

Can you control energy flows in (and outside) your body? If not, no real worries.

:smile:
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Re: Magic and superstition

Postby GarcherLancelot » Sat Jul 14, 2012 10:13 pm

Jeff wrote:Curses rarely have any effect unless the recieving person "accepts" the curse. Random thoughts can be sometimes manifested, but usually only with great stillness & energy. There is no real stillness with negative thoughts, so it is mostly self limiting.

Can you control energy flows in (and outside) your body? If not, no real worries.

:smile:

by "Accepting" you mean?
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Re: Magic and superstition

Postby kirtu » Sun Jul 15, 2012 1:34 am

GarcherLancelot wrote:Hmm,how to make sure you did not curse anyone or something or some action by thinking about it,it doesn't workthrough law of attraction or something like that right?


It's impossible to really curse people accidentally. You have to be in a committed state of hatred to do so usually coupled with intense anger (or you ritually engage with hatred but not necessarily intense anger - that is really bad because then the person has really committed themselves to harm at least during the ritual). You might momentarily be angry with someone and thing something negative about them. This only harms you. If you have habitual reactions like this then you should probably avoid these people until you can tame your mind.

At any rate, practice lovingkindness and compassion for all people but esp, for people you have negative experiences with. Traditionally it is taught that you may have to work up to this. There is a form of breath meditation called tonglen in which you sit in calming meditation, then breath in negativities from beings, this is either transformed into positive qualities or dissolves into emptiness or is utterly destroyed by your own Buddha Nature at your heart (these are all taught variations) and then all your positive qualities are shared with all beings and all beings are released from suffering as a result. So you can train yourself to meditate briefly like this and really cut the possibility of cursing people in any way. In fact eventually the exact opposite will occur because your heart and mind will be transformed.

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Re: Magic and superstition

Postby Jeff » Sun Jul 15, 2012 2:55 am

GarcherLancelot wrote:
Jeff wrote:Curses rarely have any effect unless the recieving person "accepts" the curse. Random thoughts can be sometimes manifested, but usually only with great stillness & energy. There is no real stillness with negative thoughts, so it is mostly self limiting.

Can you control energy flows in (and outside) your body? If not, no real worries.

:smile:

by "Accepting" you mean?


Curses are like insults. The power is based in the belief that it is true. If someone tells you are "stupid" and you accept (believe) it, you let it in, give it power and you start to believe it. It is very rare to find someone who has the energy to truly impact someone else, but we all have the power to accept a curse and give it power. We deeply affect our own reality.

:smile:
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Re: Magic and superstition

Postby kirtu » Sun Jul 15, 2012 3:18 am

Jeff wrote:Curses are like insults. The power is based in the belief that it is true.


This is unfortunately not always true. There are spiritual forces that can be harnessed (or will lend there activity in some way) to really cause harm to another even if the victim is unaware of the curse or intention. In these cases the curse appears to have an objective reality. I think this is rarely observed and almost never acknowledged in the west where such activity is almost always reduced to a phenomena with a purely psychological basis.

I have in fact seen this happen and directed against a person who most certainly did not believe in such things but was nonetheless injured.

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Re: Magic and superstition

Postby GarcherLancelot » Sun Jul 15, 2012 7:18 am

kirtu wrote:
Jeff wrote:Curses are like insults. The power is based in the belief that it is true.


This is unfortunately not always true. There are spiritual forces that can be harnessed (or will lend there activity in some way) to really cause harm to another even if the victim is unaware of the curse or intention. In these cases the curse appears to have an objective reality. I think this is rarely observed and almost never acknowledged in the west where such activity is almost always reduced to a phenomena with a purely psychological basis.

I have in fact seen this happen and directed against a person who most certainly did not believe in such things but was nonetheless injured.

Kirt

But how do they do it?
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Re: Magic and superstition

Postby zangskar » Sun Jul 15, 2012 9:14 am

GarcherLancelot, the very definition of the "occult" is that it's hidden, mysterious, weird, impossible to give a rational explanation even to those who "master" it (or seem to master, for some period of time). That also means that asking on internet forums about "whether or not the occult is real" and "how it works" and so on is likely to result in only a lot more fuel to the fire of doubt and confusion that seems to be going on in your mind, because you will get 100s of different views and no way to know which one to put your own faith in.

Based on this thread and the "spirit guide" thread my guess is that what you are looking for, or should be looking for, is probably some form of therapy to deal with your thoughts. No offense but this all sounds a lot like obsessive compulsive disorder. However if I'm completely wrong about this then I'm sorry, I really don't mean to insult you. But if I'm more or less right then the "solution" to your worries is most likely not to dwelve further into the reality or non-reality of cursing and black magic, but simply to learn to deal with your thoughts in a way that will keep them from haunting YOU: You are the prime victim here, your thoughts are causing you pain and misery. It's possible you could find some advice to deal with these things from the perspective of Western therapy on your own, I guess it depends on how severe it is for you. These are just the two first google results I got:
http://www.helpguide.org/mental/obsessi ... er_ocd.htm
http://www.anxietyandstress.com/dealingwithocd.html

If you insist on a "supernatural" solution to your worries then you should probably seek out a professional in that area, in whom you have faith, or you respect: a lama, monastery or priest, or a "wise" man or woman of some sort, and ask for them for help and a blessing (or ritual) to help you. (However, if you're in the West it's likely that many would simply refer you to therapy. But then you could accept this advice, and go to therapy, but also ask for additional prayers, which few would deny you.)

Whatever you choose, I pray and hope that your painful thoughts will be liberated and transformed into the best thoughts.

Best wishes
Lars
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