Dorje Drolo and Vajrakilaya

borat
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Dorje Drolo and Vajrakilaya

Postby borat » Wed Jun 13, 2012 11:08 pm

What is difference among practice Dorje Phurba and Dorje Drolo in activity? How work these practices?
Is it true Dorje Drolo is more wrathful than Vajrakilaya?

muni
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Re: Dorje Drolo and Vajrakilaya

Postby muni » Thu Jun 14, 2012 8:49 am

Since internet forums cannot replace the master regarding these practices, still some general information:

Vajrakīlaya is a wrathful form of Vajrasattva, the pure vajra nature of Enlightenment. In this imagery, the Compassion of the Buddhas is expressed forcefully, to eradicate in a powerful way the entrenched ignorance and emotional afflictions which cause obstacles, interfering with auspicious circumstances and preventing the dawning of realisation.

http://www.pemayoedling.org/Vajrakilaya.htm


"Guru Dorje Drolo is the crazy wrathful Buddha of the degenerate era. He has no regular pattern to his wrath. He is completely out of order!" He is a manifestation of crazy wisdom. He is an ecstatic manifestation of Padmasambhava, the deity Dorje Drolo embodies the forces of insight and compassion beyond logic and convention. Invoking in the practitioner the fearlessness and spontaneity of the awakened state, Dorje Drolo transforms hesitancy and clinging into enlightened activity. Dorje Drolo's energy overcomes distinctions of life and death, representing instead a continual process of giving birth to new circumstances and possibilities. Padmasambhava manifested as Dorje Drolo at numerous pilgrimage places in order to subvert indigenous Tibetan beliefs in demons and malevolent gods, redirecting their powerful energies toward the path of wisdom and compassion. Dorje Drolo, the subverter of demons, looks very wrathful. He has fangs, an overbite, and three eyes. He wears Tibetan boots, a chuba and monk's robes, two white conch shell earrings, and a garland of severed heads. His hair is bright red and curly, giving off sparks. To show how truly crazy he is, he dances on the back of a pregnant tigress, surrounded by flames which signifies the latent power of our intrinsic Buddha Nature. The tigress is often depicted as also dancing, so that everything is in motion. Dorje Drolo had 5 dakini consorts/acolytes who he worked with and engaged in tantric practice with.

This Buddha is not your typical serene, passive Buddha. He is dynamic and brings calm and enlightenment in unconventional ways.
http://www.turtlehill.org/khen/eman.html

borat
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Re: Dorje Drolo and Vajrakilaya

Postby borat » Tue Jun 19, 2012 10:18 pm

nobody knows?:((

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Re: Dorje Drolo and Vajrakilaya

Postby dakini_boi » Fri Jun 22, 2012 1:09 am

Drolo - Padma family - Lama (root of blessings)

Kilaya - Karma family (enlightened activity) - Yidam (root of siddhis)

take from that what you will
i think it mostly depends on your connection, lineage, gurus, etc. both obviously very important wrathful forms in nyingma, for dispelling outer/inner/secret obstacles

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Re: Dorje Drolo and Vajrakilaya

Postby Nemo » Fri Jun 22, 2012 2:25 am

There is a practice that combines both.

Guru Drag-purba

Image

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Re: Dorje Drolo and Vajrakilaya

Postby Kunzang » Fri Jun 22, 2012 3:05 am


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Re: Dorje Drolo and Vajrakilaya

Postby Josef » Fri Jun 22, 2012 3:45 am


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Re: Dorje Drolo and Vajrakilaya

Postby Pema Rigdzin » Fri Jul 13, 2012 11:03 am


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Re: Dorje Drolo and Vajrakilaya

Postby Blue Garuda » Fri Jul 13, 2012 11:20 am

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pema tsultrim
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Re: Dorje Drolo and Vajrakilaya

Postby pema tsultrim » Sun Jul 22, 2012 10:19 am

I think two of the first replies taken together are helpful:

Kilaya: Wrathful Vajrasattva, Karma or Vajra Family, focus of practice is eliminating obstacles through wrathful means, esp. purification of anger and negative karma.

Dorje Drollo: Wrathful Guru Rinpoche (the form in which he concealed many of his Termas), Pema Family, focus of practice is elimination of obstacles through crazy wisdom, also through subduing demonic forces (Dud-dul).

I know this is a long post, but maybe the following is of interest to someone. If I am incorrect on anything here, someone please correct me!

Kilaya Tantras originate from the Oddiyana Dakini Lekyi Wangmo, to Prabahasti (one of the Eight Vidyadharas of India) and on to Guru Rinpoche, and thus are both Kama and Terma.
Dorje Drollo I believe is mostly, if not exclusively a Terma practice (if it is even possible for that to be the case).

Vajrakilaya practice is extremely common in Nyingma monasteries as an extensive Drupchen prior to Losar to remove obstacles for the coming year (and presumably to purify negative karma from the past year?) As far as I know Drollo is not as universally an annual practice, though in some lineages and western Dharma centers it is. At Palyul Namdroling Monastery in S. India, there is a temple dedicated entirely to Vajrakilaya. I have fond memories of the monks in the temple pounding the drums and metal khangling horns shredding through the morning air like a crazed swarm of mutant bees in a lightning storm. Terrifying and comforting at the same time (terrifying to my ego and comforting to my buddhanature perhaps?). This was a common puja performed not only in the Drupchen, but whenever it was requested by a sponsor and maybe on the 29th day of each month (also common to do with protectors on that day). I also recently had a very powerful experience after doing a single concise Vajrakilaya practice that convinced me of the power of that deity to remove obstacles. If you feel you would benefit from hearing the story, I feel there would be no fault in sharing it (no meditative realizations or anything like that, but eerily significant events around it). Also witnessed an amazing display at a Vajrakilaya empowerment with H.H. Penor Rinpoche in Pharping, Nepal in 2005.

At the Pema Osel Ling retreat center of Lama Tharchin and H.H. Dungse Thinley Norbu Rinpoche in California there is a Dudul Chorten (basically a Dorje Drollo Stupa). Also the 50 ft. Zuni Mountain Stupa is a Dudul Chorten in N.W. New Mexico but in a different architectural style. Both contain thousands of Dorje Drollo Tsa Tsas inside the vase in order to pacify negative forces in the degenerate age.
Image
Zuni Mountain Stupa, NM

Image
Dorje Drollo Stupa at P.O.L., CA

My lama Bhakha Rinpoche :sage: , a Dudjom lineage holder who served Dudjom Rinpoche closely for many years, has imparted the following about Dorje Drolö practice:

The wrathful practice of Dorje Drolö is critically important in pacifying all the negative circumstances that we face in today's world. Since the whole spectrum of Buddhadharma teachings and its essence is love, compassion, and wisdom, this wrathful practice is not just the expression of some sort of ordinary rage; rather, it is the pinnacle practice of compassion and wisdom underlying the practice of Buddhadharma at its most profound level. Therefore, for the sake of all sentient beings, particularly in this degenerate time, this practice is a very powerful and immediately effective way of bringing peace and harmony to the world. This particular sadhana, called “The Vital Essence Sadhana of Dudjom T'hak-T'hung Pema,” was H.H. Dudjom Rinpoche's heart essence; by doing this practice, Dudjom Rinpoche overcame many obstacles and gained long life.

Image
Ven. Bhakha Rinpoche with H.H. Dudjom Yangsi (Nepal, 2011)

I should add that since 2000 or 2001, Bhakha Rinpoche's sanghas in California had done a weekend Vajrakilaya intensive prior to Losar every year, up until last year. Last year, Rinpoche instead led a Dorje Drollo intensive before losar. Take from that what you will. The previous Fall as well, Rinpoche led a Dorje Drollo retreat at the Zuni Mtn. Stupa which was so well attended they didn't have room to fit everyone inside the stupa and it was apparently quite a show. I haven't had the fortune of practicing D.D. or attending any D.D. puja anywhere so I have no first hand comments of the practice. Rinpoche is on the recovery from a stroke last winter (please pray for his long life and excellent health) so it is tentative, but he is supposed to be leading another D.D. weekend at the Zuni Mtn. Stupa this September. If you're interested, visit Bhakha Rinpoche has been stressing Dorje Drollo practice more and more in recent years, and there must be a reason...

Last thing I'll say, regarding Duru Dragpo vs. Guru DragPhur vs. Duru Dorje Drollo, they are certainly related in terms of all being wrathful G.R. Some termas have Drollo, some have Dragpo, some have DragPhur (or Guru Gragpo PhurJuk (Kilaya-Tail or Lower-Body Kilaya). In the Longchen Nyingthig cycle, the only wrathful G.R. practice is Lama Dragpo Ta-Kyhung Barwa, which is a combined manifestation of Guru Dragpo, Hayagriva and Garuda. Very powerful practice for overcoming obstacles, specifically disease and spirit harm from nagas. Relatively speaking, while Guru Dragpo and Dorje Drollo are distinct forms, in the actual words of the Takhyung Barwa sadhana Guru Dragpo is referred to as Dorje Drowo Lod (Drollod)...so hmmm.... (BTW if I am in dangerous waters regarding discussing these things, please tell me. I don't want to do anything wrong.) Similar practices exist in which Guru Dragpo (the Guru Rinpoche aspect) is replaced with Vajrapani. This is called Ta-Chag-Khyung-Sum (Tamdrin=Hayagriva, Chagna-Dorje=Vajrapani, Khyung=Garuda) in the Dudjom Tersar tradition and I think there is a Gelugpa version, too. So...each have their own unique story, appearance, origin and power, and in many ways are similar but are in fact distinct in certain ways, too. I guess karma determines our connection to one variant or another????

BTW I'm really not trying to show off here even though it seems like it. I happen to find all this stuff incredibly fascinating, and love these types of discussions. Simultaneously impresses and irritates the heck out of my wife, which is why I do this stuff at 1:30 am!

Love,

P.T.

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Re: Dorje Drolo and Vajrakilaya

Postby Blue Garuda » Sun Jul 22, 2012 11:12 am

I have practised Nyenpa Pha Sum (Vajrapani, Hayagriva, Garuda) for some time (empowerment from DzogchenRinpoche) and lately have practised Guru Tragphur which adds Yangdak Heruka and Vajrakilaya as a follower of ChNNR. I'l play devil's advocate and ask for some clairifcation:

When were these 'combination' deities first mentioned in history?

The combinatiions are interesting but is there really a huge advantage over the practise of say, wrathfu Vajrapani ?

Being a form of Padmasambhava is positive, but what is added compared with, again, wrathful Vajrapani?

What is quoted above about 'Dorje Drolö' is similar to the script of pretty much all wrathful deity empowerments I've received - this is the most powerful deity for removing inner outer and secret obstacles, illness, harm from spirits etc etc.

Surely any one of these wrathful deities does the same job, and what really matters is your faith or confidence when performing the practice.

A question - I note that Dorje Drollo appears with a Garuda - is the Garuda part of a combination or a secondary but separate deity?
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pema tsultrim
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Re: Dorje Drolo and Vajrakilaya

Postby pema tsultrim » Sun Jul 22, 2012 12:12 pm


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Re: Dorje Drolo and Vajrakilaya

Postby Blue Garuda » Sun Jul 22, 2012 2:21 pm

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Malcolm
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Re: Dorje Drolo and Vajrakilaya

Postby Malcolm » Sun Jul 22, 2012 3:17 pm





འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


Free of hope and fear, relax.
Human life spent in
a state of great spaciousness is enjoyable.


— Kunzang Dechen Lingpa

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kirtu
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Re: Dorje Drolo and Vajrakilaya

Postby kirtu » Sun Jul 22, 2012 9:39 pm



"Even if you practice only for an hour a day with faith and inspiration, good qualities will steadily increase. Regular practice makes it easy to transform your mind. From seeing only relative truth, you will eventually reach a profound certainty in the meaning of absolute truth."
Kyabje Dilgo Khyentse Rinpoche.

"Only you can make your mind beautiful."
HH Chetsang Rinpoche

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Re: Dorje Drolo and Vajrakilaya

Postby Blue Garuda » Sun Jul 22, 2012 9:45 pm

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Re: Dorje Drolo and Vajrakilaya

Postby pema tsultrim » Tue Jul 24, 2012 6:20 am


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Re: Dorje Drolo and Vajrakilaya

Postby kirtu » Tue Jul 24, 2012 6:27 am



"Even if you practice only for an hour a day with faith and inspiration, good qualities will steadily increase. Regular practice makes it easy to transform your mind. From seeing only relative truth, you will eventually reach a profound certainty in the meaning of absolute truth."
Kyabje Dilgo Khyentse Rinpoche.

"Only you can make your mind beautiful."
HH Chetsang Rinpoche

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kirtu
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Re: Dorje Drolo and Vajrakilaya

Postby kirtu » Tue Jul 24, 2012 6:33 am



"Even if you practice only for an hour a day with faith and inspiration, good qualities will steadily increase. Regular practice makes it easy to transform your mind. From seeing only relative truth, you will eventually reach a profound certainty in the meaning of absolute truth."
Kyabje Dilgo Khyentse Rinpoche.

"Only you can make your mind beautiful."
HH Chetsang Rinpoche

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Re: Dorje Drolo and Vajrakilaya

Postby Blue Garuda » Tue Jul 24, 2012 10:22 am

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