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karmic cause of schizophrenia - Page 2 - Dhamma Wheel

karmic cause of schizophrenia

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths. What can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
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Ben
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Re: karmic cause of schizophrenia

Postby Ben » Tue Feb 15, 2011 9:08 am

“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

(Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • •

e: [email protected]..

PeterB
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Re: karmic cause of schizophrenia

Postby PeterB » Tue Feb 15, 2011 9:11 am

And of course the Sayadaw was talking broad brush, in general terms. For reasons discussed we cannot apply that to individual cases.

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Ben
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Re: karmic cause of schizophrenia

Postby Ben » Tue Feb 15, 2011 9:13 am

“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

(Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • •

e: [email protected]..

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Annapurna
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Re: karmic cause of schizophrenia

Postby Annapurna » Tue Feb 15, 2011 10:25 am

http://www.schmuckzauberei.blogspot.com/

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Annapurna
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Re: karmic cause of schizophrenia

Postby Annapurna » Tue Feb 15, 2011 10:27 am

http://www.schmuckzauberei.blogspot.com/

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Annapurna
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Re: karmic cause of schizophrenia

Postby Annapurna » Tue Feb 15, 2011 10:28 am

It appears to me as if an inner opposition arose in Ben and Peter about the words of the Venerable I posted.

Is that so, and if yes, why?
http://www.schmuckzauberei.blogspot.com/

PeterB
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Re: karmic cause of schizophrenia

Postby PeterB » Tue Feb 15, 2011 11:00 am

Not at all Anna...the words of the Sayadaw apply in general terms...what we cannot do is to take those words and make conjecture about their application to a specific individual . The Acintita Sutta is quite specific that unless we have highly developed Iddhis we cannot say that "this persons situation is kammic " to do so would be conjecture...speculation.
And as the Sivaka Sutta makes clear there are a number of factors which determine a current situation...Kamma is just one of them..albeit a powerful one.
As Bhikkhu Thannisaro says events arising are due to the co-incidence of several factors including those factors which are due to physical laws and properties. The Dhamma is not Deterministic.
:anjali:

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Aloka
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Re: karmic cause of schizophrenia

Postby Aloka » Tue Feb 15, 2011 11:33 am

I think there's some very sensible advice from Peter and Ben in this thread.

:anjali:

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Annapurna
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Re: karmic cause of schizophrenia

Postby Annapurna » Tue Feb 15, 2011 11:49 am

Last edited by Annapurna on Tue Feb 15, 2011 11:52 am, edited 1 time in total.
http://www.schmuckzauberei.blogspot.com/

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Annapurna
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Re: karmic cause of schizophrenia

Postby Annapurna » Tue Feb 15, 2011 11:50 am

http://www.schmuckzauberei.blogspot.com/

PeterB
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Re: karmic cause of schizophrenia

Postby PeterB » Tue Feb 15, 2011 11:57 am

We only have an edited and interpreted version of the Venerables reply.
If that reply was indeed what he said, and all he said, then monk or not his view is in contradiction to the Buddhas words as found in the Sivaka Sutta.
This is not to wondered at.
Some of the silliest posts to be found on DW are from members of the monastic Sangha as well as some of the wisest. Ven Pesala's are usually in the latter catagory..(.another member of the monastic sangha frequently posts utter clangers.)...but underneath the robe is just another human being with opinions..
Last edited by PeterB on Tue Feb 15, 2011 12:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

PeterB
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Re: karmic cause of schizophrenia

Postby PeterB » Tue Feb 15, 2011 12:00 pm

Last edited by PeterB on Tue Feb 15, 2011 12:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Annapurna
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Re: karmic cause of schizophrenia

Postby Annapurna » Tue Feb 15, 2011 12:18 pm

http://www.schmuckzauberei.blogspot.com/

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Aloka
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Re: karmic cause of schizophrenia

Postby Aloka » Tue Feb 15, 2011 12:20 pm


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Annapurna
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Re: karmic cause of schizophrenia

Postby Annapurna » Tue Feb 15, 2011 12:21 pm

http://www.schmuckzauberei.blogspot.com/

PeterB
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Re: karmic cause of schizophrenia

Postby PeterB » Tue Feb 15, 2011 12:22 pm


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Annapurna
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Re: karmic cause of schizophrenia

Postby Annapurna » Tue Feb 15, 2011 12:24 pm

http://www.schmuckzauberei.blogspot.com/

PeterB
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Re: karmic cause of schizophrenia

Postby PeterB » Tue Feb 15, 2011 12:59 pm

This link Anna http://www.schizophrenia.com/szfacts should take you to a site that examines some of the incredibly complex causes of schizophrenia and looks at its incidence..
As you will see the biggest factor is genetic predipostition...but a whole range of factors , social and even environmental come into play.
Schizophrenia is found in every culture, and is well described in the literature even before the name was coined.
Two people can inherit the gene/s and one will develop the full blown condition and one not, depending on the social and envionment factors alluded to above.

Drug use is just one factor that can precipitate schizophrenia but there are many many others which are beyond the conscious choice of the person with the condition..

tamdrin
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Re: karmic cause of schizophrenia

Postby tamdrin » Tue Feb 15, 2011 1:08 pm

Thank you all for your replies. However even in kamma is not the immediate cause of the conditions, ultimately it seems that kamma is to blame for it is the underlying cause.. I'll have to read more about those five forces one of which is kamma to try and understand clearer! However I am still not quite understanding how it is not "all karmic" I mean if someone did the bad deeds in this or a past life and the result is set to happen, it can become a mental or physical handicap.. In my understanding this belief does not entail determinism in that with such knowledge one can effectively make wholesome karma to counteract unwholeseome. However there is an aspect of determinism in that unwholesome will never give rise to wholesome and vice versa that aspect of karma is determined but its up to people to make their karma it is not being imposed on them in some way..

PeterB
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Re: karmic cause of schizophrenia

Postby PeterB » Tue Feb 15, 2011 1:22 pm

We can play it forward tamdrin and conclude that wholesome behaviour will lead to wholesome Vipaka.
What we cant do and what the Buddha warned specifically against is to conclude that such and such a condition must be due to a specific cause....and that cause is......etc etc.


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